GGG must address TFT

no, most people are pointing fingers at both TFT and GGG both are in the wrong. More information is coming out daily about "what's going on behind the scene's at/on TFT and GGG".

like the recent case where someone RMT'd just to prove something, reported themselves, the person they RMT'd with and had video evidence and even saw GGG saw their video and GGG did nothing to either person. so GGG is basically complacent in RMTing apparently? not to mention most people want in-game features to address trading and have been for a very long time but they have been ignored and told " just use X option instead " and their posts just get berried.


we all just want the game to improve but apparently GGG isn't ready to do it and would rather sit on their hands and watch the players do it themselves, and keep a hands off approach while RMT'ing happens, which is just like why play POE then if people will knowingly have a advantage by doing it... it's straight up discouraging for a lot of people knowing that this occurs, knowing GGG is basically complacent, and knowing that there's a entire discord basically for it with lead brace deep into it.

if you haven't watched it here is just a SMALL snippet of what's going on it doesn't even cover everything.

search up on youtube: The Trial of The Forbidden Trove (TFT)

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Xinglifehard wrote:

we all just want the game to improve but apparently GGG isn't ready to do it and would rather sit on their hands and watch the players do it themselves, and keep a hands off approach while RMT'ing happens, which is just like why play POE then if people will knowingly have a advantage by doing it... it's straight up discouraging for a lot of people knowing that this occurs, knowing GGG is basically complacent, and knowing that there's a entire discord basically for it with lead brace deep into it.

"Advantage" is a silly word to be using in the context of PoE. This isn't a PvP game and it's not time-efficient to RMT in races (assuming they're even a thing, anymore). That only leaves people to use RMT to become traders on the market which is a massive nothingburger. Everything else RMT could possibly be used to do has absolutely no impact on your gameplay experience or life.

Fundamentally, TFT is a private community run outside of GGG. GGG has no authority over them. GGG can make some changes to the bulk trading website that would take probably one dude about a day to do and another day to test that would make it easier to trade without using TFT, but direct action against TFT itself would set new standards for GGG's interactions with 3rd party supporters of the game to the detriment of everyone who plays PoE. If TFT is doing something illegal then contact the relevant law enforcement authorities, otherwise they're not worth the trouble.

You know how much that video, RMTers, and TFT affects my daily experience in PoE? You know how much its affected my experience for the entire existence of TFT and RMT-ing?

Absolutely not at all.

You know how much it affects you?

Absolutely not at all.

You know how much TIME was wasted going into that video, complaining about TFT, or otherwise talking about this "toxic private club"?

All of it.


What other people do with their money and what programs other people may choose to have and use has absolutely ZERO GAMEPLAY EFFECT on MY enjoyment and experience with the game. Because PoE is, at its bare essence, a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. You play for YOURSELF, not in competition or in race with anyone else for a limited supply of items, currency, or anything else you might be "missing out on" because of another player beating you to it unfairly (or fairly).

Does TFT and RMT have an effect on the trade market? I'm sure it does. But does it really matter, and does the average player even have a clue of how much or likely how LITTLE of an effect that is? ABSOLUTELY NOT. So its as if it doesn't exist. The market changes every single league. You play the game and interact accordingly.


WHO. CARES!!!!!!!!!! Just enjoy the game and play it. Or sit there and wallow in your inability to "compete" in a completely non-competitive single player environment, while listening to blowhards launch tirades about a non-existent threat to YOUR gameplay....


GGG could pay the top 5 steamers a million dollars a year to advertise the game and even give them free items to do so....and it STILL would have absolutely no effect on my game.

it affects you more than you realize. There's plenty of people that have the same opinion I do that GGG needs to do something about trade, deal with RMT'ing because its unfair to a lot of the real "actual" player base who don't participate in it and also deal with TFT. I wont sit here and fight you about it because I doubt ill change your mind anyways.

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jsuslak313 wrote:

You know how much that video, RMTers, and TFT affects my daily experience in PoE? You know how much its affected my experience for the entire existence of TFT and RMT-ing?

Absolutely not at all.

You know how much it affects you?

Absolutely not at all.

You know how much TIME was wasted going into that video, complaining about TFT, or otherwise talking about this "toxic private club"?

All of it.


What other people do with their money and what programs other people may choose to have and use has absolutely ZERO GAMEPLAY EFFECT on MY enjoyment and experience with the game. Because PoE is, at its bare essence, a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. You play for YOURSELF, not in competition or in race with anyone else for a limited supply of items, currency, or anything else you might be "missing out on" because of another player beating you to it unfairly (or fairly).

Does TFT and RMT have an effect on the trade market? I'm sure it does. But does it really matter, and does the average player even have a clue of how much or likely how LITTLE of an effect that is? ABSOLUTELY NOT. So its as if it doesn't exist. The market changes every single league. You play the game and interact accordingly.


WHO. CARES!!!!!!!!!! Just enjoy the game and play it. Or sit there and wallow in your inability to "compete" in a completely non-competitive single player environment, while listening to blowhards launch tirades about a non-existent threat to YOUR gameplay....


GGG could pay the top 5 steamers a million dollars a year to advertise the game and even give them free items to do so....and it STILL would have absolutely no effect on my game.

this makes no sense. lets say i rmt to make some mirror tier item or whatever reason and decide i need ton of essence to craft it... i will probably buy most of the market leaving you to buy more expensive essences. it doesnt concern you in case you play some ssf style or not a lot, dont craft much, not going for top gear and so on.

or you can buy stuff cheap early in the game and your 20 bucks turns into 200 later... and again you buy the market so joe average is left buying stuff far more expensive. or make some mirror item and keep collecting fees all league and again buy stuff and dry the market for joe average.

Saying that RMT does not affect players who engange with trade is FACTUALLY FALSE.

With RMT a closed system becomes an open system, disrupting the entire market. Mirrors that are made and which can be spent to buy ingame items are rather sold for cash. Which means that currency is not seen as a medium to buy expensive items ingame but rather as a mean to turn that into euros/dollars.

If i got expensive collector items to sell, people who have 10+ mirrors will not buy them because they (having already mirrored items in every slot) sell them for real cash and in turn other rmters buy one mirror from rmt shop to mostly mirror new items. This literally disrupts market mechanics.

Lol you people have really drank the kool-aid with what other people have told you about RMT....and its wrong.

EVEN IF someone were to instead "sell" their item using RMT, disrupting YOUR ability to buy the item.....the person who is BUYING using RMT is definitely not turning around and re-selling that same item/currency on RMT! The item and its value is still retained and kept within the market.

I repeat: it DOES NOT AFFECT ME. And I also mentioned, which was ignored, EVEN if the price were to raise on items I need because of RMT....that doesn't matter! Because I don't actually know how much or how little that effect is and I can only play to what I know. And likely the RMTers are targeting the ultra high tier items that really only matter to 1% or less of the players.

Don't drink the kool-aid, think critically for yourself. The ONLY time RMT would have a "feelable" effect on your average experience is if they are buying items that are NOT dropped in the game, or are otherwise totally removed from the trade environment, causing an unnatural scarcity. This DOES NOT happen in PoE.


For example: even if the cost of essences go up by 10/20/30%, it does NOT have an effect on my gameplay. I play to whatever the cost ends up being and that's that.

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feral_nature wrote:

this makes no sense. lets say i rmt to make some mirror tier item or whatever reason and decide i need ton of essence to craft it... i will probably buy most of the market leaving you to buy more expensive essences. it doesnt concern you in case you play some ssf style or not a lot, dont craft much, not going for top gear and so on.

If someone sets out to craft a mirror-tier item then the RMT is tangential, they will still buy out the Essence market and those of us that trade will still experience a price spike. Far more likely people are just going to do what they've always done in a constant cycle: price fix the market, farm efficiently, and craft efficiently and accumulate wealth over time. If anything, any RMT they do will be to *sell* their in-game items, not buy them, at which point some random player who just started the league will buy up items -- potentially also from you -- and play the game for a bit.

Again, don't get me wrong, I don't think RMT should be part of the game, but frankly the idea that RMT id deeply ingrained into TFT is more than a bit of a stretch. If you say that some people -- even prominent people -- engage in RMT, then ban their accounts but leave the larger community alone. There's no reason to punish them.

I am here to present you with a case where one person or group can affect your game. Let's imagine GGG introduces a cool new currency which allows you to lock the state of an item and show you the future state of the item when hovered over with a modifying orb/currency. Let's call it "Hinerkora's Lock".

And you as a player, recently dropped/bought a head hunter/good ventor, so you want a new Vaal implicit on this item, but you don't want to risk poofing/bricking this expensive item you spent weeks farming. This applies to an item you crafted by pouring all currency too, if you're into (*cough* slot machine) crafting.

Well, what do you know, Hinekora's lock is just for that. You wanna go and buy one for yourself, but you see that one group or one person is now holding over 90% of all the Hinekora's locks to themselves. In holding the majority, they now essentially have the power to dictate the price for that and now the trade is not as free as it should be.

Why did this happen in the first place? Because that said person or group have accumulated enough currency through this "mirror fee" or whatever by having people copy their item a giga million times and collecting absurd amounts of currency over time. Which never should be a phenomenon that the game allows.

Also, Stop telling me/any other to go play HC or SSF. I am a casual player, and I want to sell cool stuff I find and buy stuff my current build needs. So stop giving power to one person/group to duck up economy/crafting experience for everyone else.


FF: From what I heard, This one time this 'mirror shop' group intentionally bought almost all supplies of a particular beast that's needed for crafting, just so they can prevent their competitor from crafting a mirror tier item before them.

TFT, much like RMT, is one of those things that really only has an effect on you if you LET it have an effect on you. It is completely ignorable and, if you ignore it, it plays no role and "functionally" doesn't exist.

I've never used TFT, I don't even fully know what it does or what the majority of people use it for (apart from bulk trading). MY experience with the game hasn't changed from before TFT or during TFT by my choice to NOT engage with it. I get everything I need with no problem, and I enjoy the game the same.

RMT is no different. If you feel personally slighted by someone else's choice or ability to "buy" their way to power in a game where their progress has no impact on your progress....that is a YOU problem, not an RMT or game problem.


No matter what you may think or what you are told by loud yelling voices on youtube, reddit, twitch, or whatever....there is NO third party software or community that is required to play and enjoy this game, and even excel at this game. It just plain isn't necessary. I'm living proof, and I'm sure there are MANY others. I've met a few who say the same in multiple TFT threads.

Think for yourself and, most importantly, HAVE FUN!!!! Stop raging about meaningless crap and actually enjoy the game. If there is an issue with the gameplay or bugs, then complain about that.