POE builds are overcomplicated mess.

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cursorTarget wrote:

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anti4z500 wrote:

you must be joking that majority dont trade when playing trade league :D

Just another one person who didn't read CW's Manifesto.

Okay this is another one link to Manifest

Chris Willson Trade Manifesto

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Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great
Both of the above points are even worse when you consider that the level of engagement with trade varies substantially from player to player. Most players who play Path of Exile never trade. Out of the players who do trade, most only complete a few trades in a league. The subset of players who regularly trade strongly overlaps with our core reddit and forum communities. Chances are, if you're reading this, then you're one of the top 10% of players in terms of engagement with advanced systems. The difference in magnitude of trading (and hence item acquisition and progress) between non/low-traders and heavy traders is gigantic. While a regular player would be lucky to accumulate a small handful of Exalted Orbs in a league, a trader might reach hundreds in the same timeframe. This enables them to fully-gear Shaper-capable characters while the non-trader is still in mid-tier maps or lower.

That trade manifesto post is from over 6 years ago, and while the essence of the manifesto is still influencing today's game, is it really wise to take the trading statistics from back then as still relevant today?

The game has changed a lot since then, and the perceived desire, need or necessity for trading may have changed as well. Trading has also become easier and more streamlined as time went on. Much more information and tools have also been made available as well to help with trading.

The player base from six years ago is also not the same. A large influx of new players came to POE long after its' debut and continued to as time went on, including from after the trade manifesto was posted. A large portion of players playing today weren't even playing when the trade manifesto was written. Some of the players from back then are surely not still playing today.

We have no way of knowing how many players trade today and how often they do, and using 6 year old information as "facts" can be misleading, especially when the game and its' player base is in such a state of constant flux.

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kuciol wrote:

So summarizing this thread : you refuse to follow a build, you refuse to allow others to help (by making your profile private), you handicap yourself by not trading, you are not willing to use a good skill, you refuse to fine tune your build in PoB, you refuse to learn to make good builds, you refuse to do what is needed to get op items so your underwhelming build could work and because of that GGG has to change the game to fit your personal needs right? I just have one question, why?

So you acknowledge that for someone less experienced with the game that it's important to follow a build because the game is so complicated that a person has little chance of being successful otherwise. You agree that there are bad skills out there, which raises the question of why there are bad skills at all and not just thematically different skills to interest players? You've mentioned PoB which is another question of why something so essential is not available in game from the Developer? You recommend obtaining op items to make a build work, which just highlights the yawning gap between great and what you find on the ground.

I think you just effectively summed up the case for the positive here that PoE builds are an overcomplicated mess :)

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ArtCrusade wrote:

The entire point of playing SSF

is to handicap yourself

that is why you play it

Actually, I play SSF now because I fucking loath the trade system and no longer want anything to do with it.

I despise the obvious price fixers, the low life scammers, the time wasters and so on.

Mostly I detest GGG's bi-polar approach of creating a game that is about not stopping what you're doing in-game, and combining that with a system where you have to stop what you're doing in-game in order to trade. How many leagues are there on timers which prevent you from immediately jumping out for a trade?

Yes, I understand GGG's rationale about friction with the trading system, but that doesn't stop their solution from being a poor one. They're a multi-million dollar company, they should do better.

I came here to play a game where I kill monsters and collect loot. Not attend PoE University to open my own manufacturing and retail business where eventually I might be able to play the game for 5 minutes.

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Aldora_the_Summoner wrote:

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ArtCrusade wrote:

The entire point of playing SSF

is to handicap yourself

that is why you play it

Actually, I play SSF now because I fucking loath the trade system and no longer want anything to do with it.

I despise the obvious price fixers, the low life scammers, the time wasters and so on.

Mostly I detest GGG's bi-polar approach of creating a game that is about not stopping what you're doing in-game, and combining that with a system where you have to stop what you're doing in-game in order to trade. How many leagues are there on timers which prevent you from immediately jumping out for a trade?

Yes, I understand GGG's rationale about friction with the trading system, but that doesn't stop their solution from being a poor one. They're a multi-million dollar company, they should do better.

I came here to play a game where I kill monsters and collect loot. Not attend PoE University to open my own manufacturing and retail business where eventually I might be able to play the game for 5 minutes.

Maybe it works if you know a lot and can craft things? or if you limit the content extremely and only play very simple stuff.
because I can't find ANYTHING that I really need. In the end it's all about things for sale or mats.
and I read in the steam forum that usually only 2 employees work on patches for legues. and that for many months/years. So there really isn't anything new and constantly chewing old chewing gum without upgrades isn't any fun for me personally!

OP do yourself a favor and go to POE Ninja

https://poe.ninja/builds/ancestor/

Click on builds and look at the main skill section

10 builds make up 58% after that is drops fast

Point being POE is quite diverse considering how complex the game is.

You can use this you help guide you on putting together a build

That said POE is complex been playing for 10y and still learning...POE isn't for everyone and maybe its not for you and that's okay we need games that DONT try to cater to everyone - that typically ends up pleasing no one.

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cursorTarget wrote:

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Aynix wrote:

because vast majority people play trade league so game is balanced around it. Simple.

They are not traders. Yes. The vast majority of ppl playing trade league are literally don't trade or do it very rare. Did you even read CW's Trade Manifesto?

They are penalized for the rest of 10% traders, including TFT abusers. I already asked: why do you get the charge for the speeding not even having a car?

Or you pay more taxes if you poor, and pay less taxes if you're rich. This is how PoE works nowdays.

According to CW most people dont even kill Hillock. Just shows that they count even people who played for 30 min and never came back.
IMO we shouldnt even count people who dont reach maps towards stats like how many players do this and that.

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Aldora_the_Summoner wrote:

I came here to play a game where I kill monsters and collect loot. Not attend PoE University to open my own manufacturing and retail business where eventually I might be able to play the game for 5 minutes.

EXACTLY! But your (and mine) loot is limited because of tradecore. The game is not supposed to be played this way. The difference between trade and ssf builds is a good example of that.

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Aynix wrote:

According to CW most people dont even kill Hillock. Just shows that they count even people who played for 30 min and never came back.
IMO we shouldnt even count people who dont reach maps towards stats like how many players do this and that.

Okay, can you show me your stats?

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Aldora_the_Summoner wrote:

So you acknowledge that for someone less experienced with the game that it's important to follow a build because the game is so complicated that a person has little chance of being successful otherwise. You agree that there are bad skills out there, which raises the question of why there are bad skills at all and not just thematically different skills to interest players? You've mentioned PoB which is another question of why something so essential is not available in game from the Developer? You recommend obtaining op items to make a build work, which just highlights the yawning gap between great and what you find on the ground.

I think you just effectively summed up the case for the positive here that PoE builds are an overcomplicated mess :)

They are complicated only if you dont know what you are doing because THATS THE ENTIRE POINT! Thats how the game is meant to be in the first place, deal with it. You dont want to recognize that fact because reasons. In order to have any meaningfull decision in game you must be allowed to make a bad one. You want to do whatever and still succeed. I understand why things are the way they are, you refuse that knowladge becaue you feel entitled to play. For example those items you talk about, they dont drop good all that much because you have other means of obtaining and altering them that also have to be relevant. Crafting and trading is the primary way, not drop.

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Ain_Soph_Aur wrote:

OP do yourself a favor and go to POE Ninja

https://poe.ninja/builds/ancestor/

Click on builds and look at the main skill section

10 builds make up 58% after that is drops fast

Point being POE is quite diverse considering how complex the game is.

You can use this you help guide you on putting together a build

That said POE is complex been playing for 10y and still learning...POE isn't for everyone and maybe its not for you and that's okay we need games that DONT try to cater to everyone - that typically ends up pleasing no one.

And those are just the top 15k or so, thus highly impacted by meta or rich/nolifers. There are plenty of builds to try out. It is just a little unfortunate that most build guides has to cover the end game bossing capabilities or they will be mostly ignored by the crowd. Uber bossing is not an easy task on a lot of builds thus the builds that do describe that as an option often become quite advanced and look overcomplicated to newbies.

To OP I suggest you look spesifically for league-start, budget and newbie-friendly builds. Those generally have decent step by step progression expanations either in the written guide or in the notes section in POB.

You can still play lots of different melee fantasy types. They just migh not be wrecking the end game as easily and spend a bit more time on a tricky rare. Which is ok as long as the effort put into it isn't too too high.

PoE builds are just as complex as you are willing to make them. The fact that you have options to make them "overcomplicated mess" is PoE's strenght not flaw. But there are also options to make them very simple. You all need to learn to manage your expectations, thats all there is to it.