"
Losing the totems gives you 3 sockets and a free anointment, most of the time? Guess that means a Whispers of Doom anoint, a second curse gem, and a blessing aura just became "mandatory." Already got those? Time to add a rage generator and berserk. And some warcries. Why not a vaal aura while we're at it? And obviously Smite, if it's not a brutality build. If you've got any sockets left, better fill those with general's cry and a vaal attack skill.
And you can even employ a Ralakesh bootswap, if you're nasty.
and the end result is still shit damage
melee builds in most cases are not at the point of making choices. they HAVE to use all this junk to get along. necessity of juggling 10 different buffs is what makes ubers so hard on melee. your already pathetic damage uptime is cut in half because you HAVE to manage this rubbish.
and yes, these are junk, casters when offered 'warcries' in their pathetic state - would never use them (battlemage's cry is used only because of idiotic circular scaling). stance skills? lol wut? totems that live for 3 seconds - garbage
and GGG in their 'vision' sees melee as shit you avoid that makes playing other stuff feel better. controversial but.. its their right to plan it that way. at this point i do not see anyone doubting that it is done on purpose
totems granting HALF of the damage, totems that die after literally few seconds - you couldnt make this thing up. but here we are. and people defending it - in most cases never played melee in their life (understandable, why play shit)
|
Posted bysidtheraton Nov 14, 2023, 5:13:19 PM
|
"
You completely missed my point, and it's a pretty obvious point.
If we're refining "mandatory" to mean "needed for optimal DPS" then EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE BUFF is "mandatory," which means that until your build runs out of available sockets you are going to be adding more buttons to press in boss fights, which is the exact thing OP is complaining about.
I believe it is you who "missed the point" on this entire thread, and the conversation in general...please re-read. This is a pretty common and fairly agreed-upon issue unique to melee skills. This is unique because the melee skills actually DO require the totem buffs, unlike any other skill-type / buff relationship that exists in the game today. And melee skills continue to go unbalanced and unbuffed for damage (which they SORELY need) because totems exist.
It is not "optimal dps" that melee needs, it is "functional dps".
Your argument is a valid one in every case....except totems and melee. Buffs in general are unnecessary for many builds and most function totally fine without them. This is NOT true of melee skill gems which have poor inherent dps and dps-scaling, forever plagued by the shoe-horned "buffs" like totems that players can point to and say: Oh, but here's how they deal damage!
I believe it was Ben_ who did a great breakdown of how melee damage stacks up to other skills and WHY totems are "necessary" for functional dps.
Last edited by jsuslak313 on Nov 14, 2023, 5:35:51 PM
|
Posted byjsuslak313on Nov 14, 2023, 5:29:59 PMOn Probation
|
|
Which is why the solution is to BUFF THE DAMAGE OF MELEE SKILLS, not go after any of their scaling vectors in a way which will not address OPs problem.
You guys are conflating two entirely different issues here.
|
|
|
because GGG is not going to flat out buff melee's base damage. ever.
they had years to 'try' this innovative approach but they decided to let it rot and stink applying few bandaids that resulted in all successful builds looking the same
why Boneshatter is so popular? because it actually deals the damage ALL melee skills should. Boneshatter mechanically is worse than Sweep or Ground Slam but it deals roughly double the damage other skills do. and i do not mean full banana Divergent version, no. regular with just few trauma stacks is already much better
when you actually find a successful 'melee build' it is pretty much always 'stacking'? 1500 STR (not even expensive) equals to ~1000 fire dps crit mace (Brutus Sprinkler). regular weapon scalling cannot match it, it is impossible. and BLS is the 'bad' stacking option..
entire weapon crafting system for melee is rotten, the values are laughable, base %effectiveness on melee skills make no sense. melee 'buffs' like warcries, counterattacks, stances - it is all rubbish. investment into slams/exerts is outrageous and the results garbage, stances are shit, noone ever plants banners, counterattacks are fun but you wont be killing bosses with them (unless auto-proccing Vengeance but then.. just use Boneshatter)
and they introduced projectile return just to make winners win more, just to make sure
during last few YEARS GGG did literally nothing to address any of these, in fact they murdered slams, melee bleeds and introduced DoT based difficulty to everything
|
Posted bysidtheraton Nov 15, 2023, 3:07:09 AM
|
"
I'd rather them keep it the way it is but expand on what a Ancestral Totem can do.
Yeah, its better if they totems become a permanent buff / aura that we dont have to worry about pressing ; our wrists will thank such changes because as is with warcries, bloodrage, movement skills, guard skill, banner,marks, etc our hands and item sockets are taking a beating
|
Posted byFamousWarrioron Nov 16, 2023, 5:27:58 PM
|
"
because GGG is not going to flat out buff melee's base damage. ever.
they had years to 'try' this innovative approach but they decided to let it rot and stink applying few bandaids that resulted in all successful builds looking the same
why Boneshatter is so popular? because it actually deals the damage ALL melee skills should. Boneshatter mechanically is worse than Sweep or Ground Slam but it deals roughly double the damage other skills do. and i do not mean full banana Divergent version, no. regular with just few trauma stacks is already much better
when you actually find a successful 'melee build' it is pretty much always 'stacking'? 1500 STR (not even expensive) equals to ~1000 fire dps crit mace (Brutus Sprinkler). regular weapon scalling cannot match it, it is impossible. and BLS is the 'bad' stacking option..
entire weapon crafting system for melee is rotten, the values are laughable, base %effectiveness on melee skills make no sense. melee 'buffs' like warcries, counterattacks, stances - it is all rubbish. investment into slams/exerts is outrageous and the results garbage, stances are shit, noone ever plants banners, counterattacks are fun but you wont be killing bosses with them (unless auto-proccing Vengeance but then.. just use Boneshatter)
and they introduced projectile return just to make winners win more, just to make sure
during last few YEARS GGG did literally nothing to address any of these, in fact they murdered slams, melee bleeds and introduced DoT based difficulty to everything
The melee strike range was also removed from gems, meanwhile you have ice spear, lightning trap, and bow skills clearing 2 screens away, but having all melee skills with splash is asking too much .
I like to invest in different ways to improve my skillgems, but having to invest in fortify, tribal fury, damage , life , resists, supress, is pushing it
|
Posted byFamousWarrioron Nov 16, 2023, 5:41:41 PM
|
"
because GGG is not going to flat out buff melee's base damage. ever.
they had years to 'try' this innovative approach but they decided to let it rot and stink applying few bandaids that resulted in all successful builds looking the same
why Boneshatter is so popular? because it actually deals the damage ALL melee skills should. Boneshatter mechanically is worse than Sweep or Ground Slam but it deals roughly double the damage other skills do. and i do not mean full banana Divergent version, no. regular with just few trauma stacks is already much better
when you actually find a successful 'melee build' it is pretty much always 'stacking'? 1500 STR (not even expensive) equals to ~1000 fire dps crit mace (Brutus Sprinkler). regular weapon scalling cannot match it, it is impossible. and BLS is the 'bad' stacking option..
entire weapon crafting system for melee is rotten, the values are laughable, base %effectiveness on melee skills make no sense. melee 'buffs' like warcries, counterattacks, stances - it is all rubbish. investment into slams/exerts is outrageous and the results garbage, stances are shit, noone ever plants banners, counterattacks are fun but you wont be killing bosses with them (unless auto-proccing Vengeance but then.. just use Boneshatter)
and they introduced projectile return just to make winners win more, just to make sure
during last few YEARS GGG did literally nothing to address any of these, in fact they murdered slams, melee bleeds and introduced DoT based difficulty to everything
Thats what made me a bit sad when chirs said "only 10% plays melee, other players/ play styles want new things to" i tought" ok, they want new things, but they been getting those new things for all of the past years, and melee whos asking for it for the same qmount of those years got none, and its been ignored"
|
Posted bysuriukenon Nov 18, 2023, 11:31:52 AM
|
"
"
because GGG is not going to flat out buff melee's base damage. ever.
they had years to 'try' this innovative approach but they decided to let it rot and stink applying few bandaids that resulted in all successful builds looking the same
why Boneshatter is so popular? because it actually deals the damage ALL melee skills should. Boneshatter mechanically is worse than Sweep or Ground Slam but it deals roughly double the damage other skills do. and i do not mean full banana Divergent version, no. regular with just few trauma stacks is already much better
when you actually find a successful 'melee build' it is pretty much always 'stacking'? 1500 STR (not even expensive) equals to ~1000 fire dps crit mace (Brutus Sprinkler). regular weapon scalling cannot match it, it is impossible. and BLS is the 'bad' stacking option..
entire weapon crafting system for melee is rotten, the values are laughable, base %effectiveness on melee skills make no sense. melee 'buffs' like warcries, counterattacks, stances - it is all rubbish. investment into slams/exerts is outrageous and the results garbage, stances are shit, noone ever plants banners, counterattacks are fun but you wont be killing bosses with them (unless auto-proccing Vengeance but then.. just use Boneshatter)
and they introduced projectile return just to make winners win more, just to make sure
during last few YEARS GGG did literally nothing to address any of these, in fact they murdered slams, melee bleeds and introduced DoT based difficulty to everything
The melee strike range was also removed from gems, meanwhile you have ice spear, lightning trap, and bow skills clearing 2 screens away, but having all melee skills with splash is asking too much .
I like to invest in different ways to improve my skillgems, but having to invest in fortify, tribal fury, damage , life , resists, supress, is pushing it
You forgot accuracy and crit. On a caster, even if you pay melee adjacent, you don't need to worry about accuracy. The way to play melee is to get enough AOE that it's not melee.
Accuracy is a stupid stat that should be removed. Honestly, why exactly are attack based builds being punished? In addition to depending significantly more on weapons while levelling, you have to worry about potentially not hitting enemies.
|
Posted bySlicer9875on Nov 19, 2023, 1:05:31 AM
|
