In-game trading system?!!!!

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kuciol wrote:

Its not only about bots. Trading is in direct competition with dropping and crafting items. Make one to easy and you invalidate the other 2 methods. AH is also no different than making an NPC that sells every item you want. Trading is already to easy.

This.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

The big difference in this case is that the price fixers have to make an actual effort AND have the currency necessary for that in order to do any fixing. That in itself drastically limits the number of people who can do it and also the items that can be price fixed. It will basically be limited to early league magebloods and the like where the supply is really low.

Nobody has to make any effort since most of the price fixing is run by bots.
Those people could easily buy out whatever they want cause they simply got all the currency to get whatever they want. They could for example buy out the entire stock for let's say tainted fusings and relist them for a different price. They could buy out alts and resell them for more profit.
Currently they only stick to more valuable items like beats, mirrors and stuff but simply cause they don't have the opportunity to buy whatever stock they want with the current trade system and time. And a market board would give them the option to pretty much buy out an entire stock of whatever they want within a few seconds.
People and especially bots are pretty much capable to do whatever they want with a market board. And you can already see how much impact the current trading and price fixing has, people need less than a day to farm tons of currency just by flipping and manipulating the market in their favor.
Do you think all the grinding bots will continue to farm currency over multiple accounts by "hand"? No they will be all switched over to play the markboard game all day, and that alone would affect the market heavily

That's complete nonsense and you know it.

Trying to buy out plain stuff like tainted fusings or even alts wouldn't get them anywhere because an hour after they bought everything there will be plenty of new listings available.
Especially with currency like alts where the vendor exchange exists. To pricefix alts they would have to buy out, and continue to buy out for basically ever, augments and transmutes as well. Even assuming they actually have the currency to do that in the first place.
This kind of pricefixing simply doesn't work with stuff that has large amounts of constant supply, market board or not. Besides, you said yourself that bots do all the work. It's all the same for a bot whether he buys on an auction house or makes trades in the current system.

With the big difference that an auction house provides ways to stop this kind of manipulation at least to some extent. The number of purchases per day can be limited, same for the number of listings you do. Introducing an AH doesn't necassarily mean it has to be the no rules frictionless market that everyone is afraid of.
By setting the limits for purchases/listings per day accordingly, say 5 each per day, they could essentially stop the whole "play the market" bullshit that's currently going on for good and reduce trade to what it's supposed to be, a way to get stuff you can't easily get yourself. People who use trade the way it's intended wouldn't even notice those rules while all the wallstreet guys would be fucked.
An AH by itself is nothing more than a centralized place for trades where GGG makes the rules AND actually has the means to enforce them. Something they can't really do in the current system which completely lacks control. TFT is the perfect example. The current system is way closer to a frictionless unrestrained market place than a properly implemented auctionhouse ever could be especially if we consider the existence of bots who render the whole "make trades difficult" thing doesn't work in the first place.

Arbitrage can also be futher reduced by not allowing fast trades. Just make it actual auctions where you can't just buy shit on the spot. Since all of you here are so hot for friction in trades, having to wait a few days before you get the item you want should be right up your alley. If you are worried about bots always getting the last bid, there are ways to deal with that as well. Like not providing a visible timeline for the auction, or only a rough one, or limiting it to one bid per person, or just not showing the highest bid or or or.

You just want your "instant gratification" fix. Thats all there is to it. Get your own items, not buy every single tiny speck. GGG should grow a pair and limit trading even further to uniques only since those are build enabling and there is no way around that. Then they can balance drop rates and crafting to be more SSF oriented. Here, trading fixed without AH. You trade only if you really have to. Thats how it should be in and gear farming oriented ARPG.

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By setting the limits for purchases/listings per day accordingly, say 5 each per day, they could essentially stop the whole "play the market" bullshit that's currently going on for good and reduce trade to what it's supposed to be, a way to get stuff you can't easily get yourself. People who use trade the way it's intended wouldn't even notice those rules while all the wallstreet guys would be fucked.

That would also mean that they have to adjust the entire loot table and crafting around the those limitations cause most things would suddenly be gated around a low chance lottery jackpot. And that's not going to happen same as a actual market board. Think ggg made this pretty clear with their manifesto years ago.


But to give you some examples of why limitations are bad.

Need divs to craft or buy an item? Great to be fucked by rng and a daily limit.
Need to make currency/divs in order to buy supplies? Great to be fucked once again by limits.
You don't like certain content? Those limits force you to run the unwanted content cause you are once again fucked by limits.
Got a lot of tabs cause you sell a lot of stuff? Fist punch right in the face cause limitations.

Right now you can buy a bunch of fossils, essences, even beast stuff or whatever else you desire without having to run any of the content, which is pretty fine cause not everyone has to like the same content. That was one of the reasons they introduced the atlas tree to let you pick and run the content based on your own interests or builds strength.

With limits you pretty much force people to run whatever the most profitable thing is in order to cash in the most, means worthless content gets ditched and the market lacks those items and they get expensive.
Means if you want to have something you have to run the content even if you don't like the content that much in order to build a desired build or to keep the gear progression/ crafting up for your main character.

Not to mention bots profit the most out of the situation once again cause they simply don't care to run 100 accounts to bypass the trade limits. Sure normal players would do the same but the majority likely doesn't have any interest of account hopping just to make use of the market and to escape the gatekeeping of items via stupid limits.

With and without limitations, a auction house is nothing else but profitable for bots with just minor to no benefits for the normal players, just downsides as mentioned in previous posts of others.

Anything you say is nonsense cause you either don't really have the experience with a auction house in larger games, or a slight clue of how vulnerable it is to bots. Not to mention you seem to underestimate the power bots gain via an auction house especially in a heavily rmt infested game like Poe.
But seeing suggestions like "limitations" says everything, cause if anything the game has currently a lot of larger issues and trading is definitely not one of them.

Trading can be obnoxious, sometimes tedious and slow but overall it works just fine unlike some other things in the game. In fact the biggest problem is all the third party junk, without trading would be a much better and enjoyable experience just like it used to be before discords like tft became even a thing lol.
The only helpful change would be a update and overhaul of the trade website along with some more itemized crafting currency or maps for stuff like syndicate and so on. The technology exists if you look at alva maps or unfinished sanctum runs.
The bulk function exists on the official website, it would just need to have a larger range for all of the items.

Great, if they adjust the loottable and crafting with trade limitations in mind maybe those two things actually become useful for a change instead of being completely overshadowed by trade as a means of getting items. I'd consider that an improvement.
Same for people actually running content, just imagine an ARPG where people actually do content instead of selling it to other people for profit. A dream come true.
When it comes to currency it can just allow bulklistings/purchases same as right now or, the genius way of doing it, just expand the vendor exchanges that are already in place allowing people to actually farm the currency BY THEMSELVES instead of having to buy it from others. Last time i checked ARPGS were supposed to be about farming stuff, not about wallstreet simulation.

I can understand if this system doesn't appeal to you because you are so comfortable abusing the current one to it's limits but when it comes to limiting bot issues and reigning in trade as a means of character progression and making loot/crafting more viable it's the objectively better approach. The "normal" players don't do 40-50 trades a day like you do. They wouldn't even notice the limitations. It's the top 1% that would be affected and half of them use bots themselves or are heavily involved in market manipulation and item flipping. I honestly couldn't care less if they are fucked by those limitations, in fact, that's the whole point of it.

Certainly, the bot issue can never be fully solved since nothing can prevent people from just making more accounts but a bunch of random name accounts doing similar trades to the limit everyday would be pretty easy to spot by looking at a log file so GGG could follow up with that unlike now where a decent amount of trades isn't even done via the trade site. There is also the big question if they would actually consider it worth doing, maintaining hundreds of different accounts with bots running on each of them just to somehow try to bypass the tradelimitations. Can't say if it would still be profitable but it would put a much bigger question mark behind it then the current system which provides literaly ZERO deterrent towards bots. Absolute zero.

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With limits you pretty much force people to run whatever the most profitable thing is in order to cash in the most, means worthless content gets ditched and the market lacks those items and they get expensive.

Oh and, since you accuse me of having no clue. I want to point this gem out. You can't even follow your own argument to it's logical conclusion. I wonder who is clueless here?

Read trade manifesto.

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Nomancs wrote:

Read trade manifesto.

I'd strongly recommend you to do just that. If you did you might notice that my suggestions here actually aim to solve the problems listed there AND do so in a much more effective manner than the current system.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

Read trade manifesto.

I'd strongly recommend you to do just that. If you did you might notice that my suggestions here actually aim to solve the problems listed there AND do so in a much more effective manner than the current system.

Huh can you point me where your ideas solve anything mentioned in manifesto? limiting transactions that encourage multiple accounts - this will for sure increase active accounts count on steamchart, doubt it will do anything else.

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Nomancs wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

Read trade manifesto.

I'd strongly recommend you to do just that. If you did you might notice that my suggestions here actually aim to solve the problems listed there AND do so in a much more effective manner than the current system.

Huh can you point me where your ideas solve anything mentioned in manifesto? limiting transactions that encourage multiple accounts - this will for sure increase active accounts count on steamchart, doubt it will do anything else.

If you can't figure that out by yourself with everything i've written so far then i doubt there is any point in writing a wall of text to explain it.

Chances are you aren't interested in improving/changing the status quo anyway, you just want to maintain it no matter how bad it is so our goals are different from the start.