New and Changed Gems in Path of Exile: Trial of the Ancestors

insane!
Flying pudge cycloner?
Same stale meta for 5 leagues now..
No changes to the skills whatsoever, only nerfs.
What is the vision of these changes?
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muzein wrote:
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yakoob wrote:
Is there a typo in Controlled Blaze Support?
The Less Damage component does not state specificaly With Hit.
In my understanding it reads as Global Less Dmg therefore it would decrease the Ignite Damage aswell?!


It says supported skills do less damage - That IS the hit. The ignite is an aliment proc'd off that hit.... But since Ignites are calculated off the hit's damage; yes it will lower the ignite as a result.

A hit of:
100 dmg = 90_ignite per sec for 4 sec.
The next hit would be:
97 dmg = 99.522_ignite per sec for 4 sec.
The '10th stack' hit:
70 dmg = 151.2_ignite per sec for 4 sec.
The 'Max Stack' hit:
22 dmg = 91.872_ignite per sec for 4 sec


I'm sure I'm missing something here, if someone could point me to where I'm wrong using a base hit of 100 damage as this support stacks up.

Assuming I didn't mess something up, there's a sweet spot of how many ignites you want to inflict within a 4 second window... but the support takes away damage from those who aim to max out their attack speed? Curious.

If that's the case, I'm not a fan. The game already 'throttles' player's DPS with boss mechanics. Typically melee players don't get 100% uptime on their DPS--Having a support which maxes out its top damage via some sort of breakpoint in attacks per second assumes you can maintain it.

So Either you exceed the theoretical best attacks/sec to account for downtime on bosses and lose out on DPS when your windows permit more uptime... Or adhere to the ideal attacks/sec and lose out on DPS any time you can't maintain uptime :/

Am I wrong in this assessment?


I have never made or even played a DoT build, but my understanding is DoT is based off the base damage before all the modifiers are calculated. Basically the ignite is calculated before the less damage takes effect. I recall experimenting adding poison to a build and being flabbergasted for a while why it was so low. None of my more multipliers from the hit were applying.

The "sweet spot" would be 6.5 aps of sustained attacking. Short of Cyclone or something, you rarely can expect 100% uptime in melee.
Oh nice
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Aldonés wrote:
I have never made or even played a DoT build, but my understanding is DoT is based off the base damage before all the modifiers are calculated. Basically the ignite is calculated before the less damage takes effect. I recall experimenting adding poison to a build and being flabbergasted for a while why it was so low. None of my more multipliers from the hit were applying.

The "sweet spot" would be 6.5 aps of sustained attacking. Short of Cyclone or something, you rarely can expect 100% uptime in melee.


Wouldn't it be 13 attacks (for maximum benefit of cont. blaze at 13) every 4 sec -> 3,25 attacks per sec? You can build stacks up to 26, but the benefit of the support will decrease beyond 13
Last edited by Multivitaminsaft#6068 on Aug 15, 2023, 9:27:21 AM
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Multivitaminsaft wrote:
Wouldn't it be 13 attacks (for maximum benefit of cont. blaze at 13) every 4 sec -> 3,25 attacks per sec? You can build stacks up to 26, but the benefit of the support will decrease beyond 13


364 / 14 = 26 stacks
26 / 4 = 6.5 stacks per second

If you somehow get multiple ignites per attack on most attacks, then I am completely oblivious to it. Some attacks like Molten Strike will scale this much quicker due to each attack applying 2+ hits, but I don't think that is the norm.

As with all incremental damages, they have diminishing returns. The first 13 stacks give you 182% more damage, but the later 13 stacks give an additional 64.5% more damage (2.82/4.64).
Last edited by Aldonés#1294 on Aug 15, 2023, 9:38:41 AM
How does controlled blaze count ignites? For example, you use it on a pack of 10 monsters hitting them all, with a single slam and 100% chance to ignite? If it starts at a count of 0, then you slam hitting all monsters, is the ignite count now 1? Does it jump from 0 to 10 without using any values between? Does it go from 0 to 1 to 2 ... to 10 in an actual count in some kind of pattern through the whole pack? Is damage support from the gem snap-shotted onto the monsters before or after the count?
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Aldonés wrote:
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Multivitaminsaft wrote:
Wouldn't it be 13 attacks (for maximum benefit of cont. blaze at 13) every 4 sec -> 3,25 attacks per sec? You can build stacks up to 26, but the benefit of the support will decrease beyond 13


364 / 14 = 26 stacks
26 / 4 = 6.5 stacks per second

If you somehow get multiple ignites per attack on most attacks, then I am completely oblivious to it. Some attacks like Molten Strike will scale this much quicker due to each attack applying 2+ hits, but I don't think that is the norm.


Yes, but at 26 stacks you would deal 2% more ignite DPS (3,64*(1-0,78)=1,02). To get the maximum benefit you should be at 13 stacks (where you deal around 70% more ignite dps), every stack beyond that decreases ignite dps.

As a thought experiment why it must eventually decrease overall damage you could imagine the case if there weren't any caps, where you'd do no damage at all at 34 stacks, since the initial hit would deal 101% less. So clearly, there must be a point beyond which additional stacks are bad, and that point is ~13

I made a graph of the increase versus #of stacks here: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=maximum+of+%281%2B0.14x%29*%281-0.03x%29
Last edited by Multivitaminsaft#6068 on Aug 15, 2023, 10:07:41 AM
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Deemer610 wrote:
Same stale meta for 5 leagues now..
No changes to the skills whatsoever, only nerfs.
What is the vision of these changes?


PoE2 and Ruthless vision, we only got support gems, cause this is what they bragged in exilecon about support gems in PoE2 so much, which atm both versions suck big time, and are super boring. Ruthless I think it's over to be fun/popular/wanting to play game, but PoE2 is still a long way, so there is at least some hope.
3.15 was a joke. 3.19 was a disaster. Archnemesis/Ruthless/Crucible(Archnemesis 4.0?) - worst ideas. Ruthless is a joke, a waste of resources. PoE2(exilecon version) was super disappointing.

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