How dare the reddit PoE mods lock down the 'official' PoE sub-reddit

there is alway's 4chan if you want a completely unhinged experience

thanks to a different popular arpg, I got back into POE this week. so many things I google that I can't find on the wiki end up taking me to reeddit threads. wayback machine has been my most used tool so far.

I feel your pain.

When PoE's community has always depended on third party tools for absolutely necessary information, it's uncomfortable to see one of those tools be locked down. Apparently, it's only temporary but we'll see I guess. I don't want to imagine it being long-term.

I'm one of those ridiculously addicted people. I'm min-maxing my strongest ever build atm, and so while on breaks at work, I'll sometimes google ideas like "have you ever done this?", etc. I'm obsessed and so the reddit lockdown's hitting me hard.

I hope it comes back soon.

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hmcg020 wrote:

I feel your pain.

When PoE's community has always depended on third party tools for absolutely necessary information, it's uncomfortable to see one of those tools be locked down. Apparently, it's only temporary but we'll see I guess. I don't want to imagine it being long-term.

I'm one of those ridiculously addicted people. I'm min-maxing my strongest ever build atm, and so while on breaks at work, I'll sometimes google ideas like "have you ever done this?", etc. I'm obsessed and so the reddit lockdown's hitting me hard.

I hope it comes back soon.

The community is leaving Reddit and joining the lemmyverse. This will be more noticeable in 15 days

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Xyel wrote:

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Nubatron wrote:

I honestly think that smaller subs are fine, but once you start getting into the millions, you're bound to have bad apples that are shockingly awful and equally loudmouthed about it. Not all subs are bad and I realize that's a broad generalization, but that has definitely been my experience. The toxic subs are still better than the echo chambers that ban any outsider opinions. Those are funny in a way I suppose.

As for YT, FB and Twitter: I'm not sure that is the finest example of good places to be. I largely quit using FB a few years ago because it was getting so bad. One of my high school acquaintances became a raging racist and seemed to be able to say some pretty awful things without any repercussions. YT comments can be pretty vile as well. I don't use Twitter much, but it does appear that a lot of bigoted awful things are unmoderated now in the name of "free speech absolutism" (while ironically censoring things that the thin-skinned CEO gets his feelings hurt over).

Now some will say that everyone should be able to say whatever they want, and that's kind of true I suppose if you think the vilest deserve a megaphone. I tend to reference the Paradox of Tolerance when it comes to that point though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

It's not a megaphone though - tweets don't spread on twitter unless a lot of people like and retweet them. Same for videos on Youtube and posts on Facebook (I suppose at FB - I use it solely to run ads so I've got no idea how the algorithms work). The spreading potential of anything on a social network is directly proportionate to how much it resonates with the users, and if there're enough people to push a fringe opinion to the point where it could be considered a megaphone, is it really a fringe opinion?

My favorite example of this are flat-earthers - that's an absurdly stupid belief, and it hasn't been censored at all. The result is that the vast majority of everyone recognizes it as the brand of idiocy that it is, and it's not like there's a flood of any flat-earth content on any social network.

Allowing stupid ideas to be beaten up in a public discussion is a fairly effective way to push them into irrelevancy while protecting an idea from public discussion by outright banning it gives it sort of a sacred status ('they wouldn't be banning it if it wasn't true').

I think the way things spread is beyond just support. I would argue controversial spreads faster through replies and retweets/shares. Most people might find it vile. Some might find it persuasive still though in a situation where they otherwise wouldn’t have seen it perhaps. Yeah, it takes a special kind of stupid to believe flat earther stuff and it is mostly harmless when they do. I would worry more about harmful beliefs and disinformation on topics like vaccines as an example. Thanks to that special group, we get to have fun with things like polio and measles again.

And even if a lot of people agree with something, that doesn’t make it less vile. Most of the marginalized groups in this world are in the minority and a majority of people think it’s okay to treat some of those groups terribly.

I would like to think that the stupid things get beat up in public, but that doesn’t seem to happen fast enough. [Removed by Support]

Anyway, I’m on my phone so hard to elaborate much. I see part of your point thorough. I just think at the extremes, spreading misinformation and hate should just be pulled out at the root.

path of exile would be better off without reddit i mean GGG left reddit and stoped communicating on reddit for a good reason

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Gopstop22 wrote:

path of exile would be better off without reddit i mean GGG left reddit and stoped communicating on reddit for a good reason

+1 Based.

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Nabster wrote:

I'm very glad this forum exists because otherwise it would be much worse. I don't care that some third party tools that I don't use can't leech money off of reddit anymore, but I do care that 2/3s of my search results are unavailable because people are only talking about it on reddit.

I haven't even heard of these 3d party tools before, and just because mods are power tripping even if I dont like reddit I'm affected. GGG should just fire all reddit their subreddit mods and replace them with their own employees, because they are really just harming their own brand for some app that reddit mods like to use.

On the latter part there is no GGG firing subreddit mods - its not their reddit. But in the first paragraph you are quite right in a way that no one is talking about in all these threads. Reddit owns data and has no obligation to give it away for free to let others make money off of. The market will dictate whether their price for the api access is fair, not what some armchair user thinks about what things 'should' cost.

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vio wrote:

so, you agree that poe should make their apis a paid feature too, killing all free tools like poe.ninja that use them?

Not who you directed the question to, but I would be very ok with that.

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Xyel wrote:

It's not a megaphone though - tweets don't spread on twitter unless a lot of people like and retweet them. Same for videos on Youtube and posts on Facebook (I suppose at FB - I use it solely to run ads so I've got no idea how the algorithms work). The spreading potential of anything on a social network is directly proportionate to how much it resonates with the users, and if there're enough people to push a fringe opinion to the point where it could be considered a megaphone, is it really a fringe opinion?

My favorite example of this are flat-earthers - that's an absurdly stupid belief, and it hasn't been censored at all. The result is that the vast majority of everyone recognizes it as the brand of idiocy that it is, and it's not like there's a flood of any flat-earth content on any social network.

Allowing stupid ideas to be beaten up in a public discussion is a fairly effective way to push them into irrelevancy while protecting an idea from public discussion by outright banning it gives it sort of a sacred status ('they wouldn't be banning it if it wasn't true').

This is an insanely naïve view of social media. Twitter can control and has controlled what trends. YT, FB, and google can all modify their algorithms and put in exceptions and overrides whenever they please on any given subject. All of them have full publishing control over what appears on the platforms (and they sometimes cede that publishing control to countries in exchange for being allowed to operate there.

And reddit? Do we really want to act like reddit is organic? LOL. The CEO edited people's posts in a way that didn't even display an 'edited' flair to make it look like users said things they didn't. They secretly blocked entire subreddits from being able to appear on the front page. They have wildly different standards for enforcing their content policy depending on whether or not they agree with a sub's ideology - and this is without even touching the very real concerns about the mods.

The poe subreddit mods once held an open thread asking for feedback on their moderation - this was right around the time they decided to start removing all 'low effort meme posts' (bonus points if you can see the problem with that straight away)

I asked why they couldn't just be hands off and let the community organically decide what should rise and fall based on popular opinion. Their answer? "If you don't like our rules, go start your own subreddit."

I'm actually in full agreement that ideas should be allowed to exist without censorship, but that is NOT what you get when you go to any of the websites you listed.

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innervation wrote:

The market will dictate whether their price for the api access is fair, not what some armchair user thinks about what things 'should' cost.

Why did all of the large third-party applications announce they are shutting down, if the market price was "fair"?