The Campaign was honestly fine the first ~50 times.

It was. Also deleting my characters to make room for new characters was fine about the first 50 times. But just like a few things that have been worn too long, they've began to chafe.

I can't see any reason not to have a season rebirth option, just take all the stuff on the character and dump it into a remove only tab. Or delete the stuff. I'm just... so tired of all these steps to make a new character. I just want to click go and go. I have a bunch of character slots and y'all only put them on sale a few days before league launch. You could just make the prince standard (20 points) and put them in bundles or include a few slots with the supporter packs but I feel like all that is just kicking the problem down the road, which might be more tolerable if the road was nicer.

For the campaign I know there have been more than a few experiments that might have worked for replacing the campaign in leveling, such as endless ledge and endless delve and battle royale. The happy medium is just kicking waypoint unlocks up to the league local level, as that would at least constitute one less thing to worry about, one less barrier between me and getting to the meaty and potatoes of the game that I'm thrilled so many people are enjoying this league.

Course, you could go farther. Could make quest completions league local. Could make it so you can get level appropriate map choices from map person in your hideout that you can just walk over and drop into your map device, or something. Look, I'm gonna level with y'all, y'all were bragging about putting together Royale in a couple days so something like this feels like y'all could put it together in under a week.

If you have all your waypoints unlock then we would all just use a leveling service. All just stand still i a 5-way or have someone run 5 man delve.

Is that what you want just sit there stare at the screen and let someone else do it, because this is how it's going to be.

Can't do that in HCSSFRUTHLESSPOTATO game types so your argument is invalid.

"

Andromansis wrote:

Can't do that in HCSSFRUTHLESSPOTATO game types so your argument is invalid.

So you only want this in HCSSFRUTHLESSPOTATO ?

Now you are being ridiculous. That wasn't even you augment. Comon now.

I know that, and you know that, but does the HCSSF+\-Ruthless people know that?

Like am I wrong for wanting speed and comfort while I'm playing the game modes that are fastest and most comfortable just because some people are into hardcore bondage game modes?

but what do you want instead?

Endless delve?
70 tiers of maps before real maps or a scalable map?
or 70 levels for free?

Isn't this the same thread as the D4 skip story thread. With a few alternative solutions. Someone wants attention.

Monty Hall. You are given a choice of 3 doors.

One leads to the campaign with the quests done and waypoints unlocked, the other leads to something else, the 3rd leads to a map and you get 3 doors afterward.

Or something. I guess I'm just left with the feeling like the person who enjoys the game but not all the eccentricities of the game like having to delete a character and play through the campaign for the 70th or 80th time (or for some people 100th to 200th to 500th) is entirely unrepresented in the echo chamber of feedback that GGG has built for the game. Like Chris was worried, or at least paying lip service to the fact, that some features feel like they were only built for ruthless and I feel like he completely overlooked the psychology of the situation. It isn't that people are upset that things are getting built for ruthless, people are upset that things aren't getting built for the way they like to enjoy the game.

I don't have the internal numbers but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that more people play softcore trade than hardcore trade and more people play hardcore trade than hardcore ssf and more people play hardcore ssf than play hardcore ruthless ssf. So why does it feel like softcore trade isn't getting anything but nerfs all the time? Like the last thing that made me say "YES! That was a good feature! Excellent upgrade" was the guild stuff but they only implemented that as a means to farther monetize the game.

Meanwhile here comes Diablo 4, which is not only going to have a season rebirth option but also a campaign skip. I don't care if I feel like its a bargain bin ripoff of the work David Brevik and Gazillion did when they made Marvel Heroes, even if they couldn't figure out the parts that made it really nice ( or maybe they did and we just haven't seen it yet), they at least have the basic convenience features I think I'd enjoy in an ARPG where I'm rolling new characters with limited character slots every ~3 months. I don't care that Magic Legends was built using all the same design docs as Diablo 4 and players ABSOLUTELY hated it and streamers shitcanned that game hard enough that the publisher ate the 12,000,000 estimated dollars they spent developing it and cancelled it while it was in beta. They have the bare minimum convenience features I think I want, and therefore I'll probably give them money for the game even though I'm not thrilled about the game itself.

I don't like being in that position, where I feel like I should be purchasing something just because it has convenience features I like when this other product could probably do a better job and just... chooses not to for the 6th consecutive year. Because of their "feelings" or whatever justification they might come up with when fed the question.

I really can't believe there are still some players defending the campaign-forced gameplay in 2023. You're a bot made by GGG in my opinion.

"

Andromansis wrote:

I don't like being in that position, where I feel like I should be purchasing something just because it has convenience features I like when this other product could probably do a better job and just... chooses not to for the 6th consecutive year. Because of their "feelings" or whatever justification they might come up with when fed the question.

Why is it that every time someone uses the claim that feelings shouldn't impact judgements, they start by basing their arugments on their own feelings ("I don't like being in that position, where I --feel-- like I should be", emphasis mine)

Like I'm pretty chill about the idea of alternate leveling methods, but boy do people not really think about what remvoing it might have in terms of knockon effects. Games are wierd, they're a house of cards but you don't know what's supporting the spine, remove a big piece, even if it looks wobbly, can make it all topple. GGG wants (and IMO really needs to keep) the perception of character value, time investment is a way to do that, and honestly it might be a major part of what players actually like, that adds to their feeling of progress or accomplishment.

Or maybe not. The only way to know is to remove it, but once that genie is out of the bottle, it's out. If that was the part holding the feelings together, you will never fix the problem and the game will die. It's not a choice they'd want to make lightly, particularly when there is (factually) less harm keeping it, even if people are vocal about not wanting it there, because it's a VERY rare player who truly understands WHY they enjoy about a particular game. Why DOTA works, but LoL doesn't or vice versa, the devil is very much in those details.

Like it or not, what people like about games is entirely about feelings, and people are very bad at predicting or understanding their own, and it's impossible to guess at the feelings of a wider audience.