state of slams (hit slow and hard) - it is sadly rubbish

Honestly Sid, what the fucking hell do you expect to get when you make builds like this?

You use maces, again, why? You yourself stated god knows how many times that they are bad, and yes they are so why do you insist on using them for everything?

And as always you refuse to use any of the items that actually benefit melee/your build at all. I mean you wouldn't go and try making a spell build without items that have gem levels right? So why the hell are you so obsessed with not using any useful gear when making melee builds?

What you are trying to do here is the melee equivalent to a spell selfcast build without unleash, 0 cast speed, no mana sustain and no gem level scaling on items. Care to try that out for reference?

Yes, your build sucks. Like literally any single melee build you've posted on this forum over the years. Thing is, if we take the potential of melee as a scale from 1-10 your build is a 1. Now it's another matter whether an actual 10 on the scale can compare to top tier trigger/proxy caster builds but your issues here are on a different scale and mostly selfmade.

POE isn't designed as a game where all choices are equal or even viable, there are bad ways to do things and if you explore multiple of them at once in a single build you'll end up with a pile of trash like this and frankly, that's how it's supposed to be.

Slams are melee, ggg hates melee and does not want anyone to play it.
End of story really, even the patch they called the melee patch had better buffs to range and most people played totems or burning arrow.

"

raics wrote:

To throw my hat in, I've been playing a warcry slam build a bit this league, doryani's touch - battlemage cry - shock nova to be exact.

Let me bring mine now, as I wanted to play a mind of the council + doryani's fist mana hierophant ...
Well, one could say the initial choice of items is the problem, but building against such items is also part of the fun to me.

(CwC + voltaxic burst feels quite nice for clearing, but the skill against beefier targets is Doryani's touch).


So far (lvl 92), the single target dps does not feel very good because of the health disparity between monsters.
Most of them get one shot or 2~3 shots, but then come in some some really beefy rares or some bosses and it just gets tedious honestly =/

And even some targets that get a 65% shock ... are awfully beefy, and even with 2 ancestrally boosted slam under impurity of lightning, this does not chance all that much in the end.


So I can support most of what has been said in this thread (I haven't read 100% of it)

And really back this statement up *

"

raics wrote:

Especially if that single target is wearing an industrial grade rubberized, grounded hazmat suit, as rares often do these days

PS : I didn't use PoB for this character because I really could not be bothered, I find it somewhat boring to feel like one should use PoB to build a character so I haven't even checked anything there really.
It is also SSF so with better items it should be possible to add quite a bit more mana to boost the dmg output really, but I don't think that I'm going to play the character for much longer.
Gear is okayish I guess (I wanted to try the Heist shield that converts fire/cold incoming damage to lightning, but I don't think I'll ever see it)


My Death Oath + Bane trickster (lvl99) feels like it has much higher damage lol, even though it really isn't very high at all.

PPS : I find it super LAME that one has to use intimidating cry to play a build with slow attacks, the game currently entirely makes you need to use it ....
It's lame, and it's quite annoying really.

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Honestly Sid, what the fucking hell do you expect to get when you make builds like this?

You use maces, again, why? You yourself stated god knows how many times that they are bad, and yes they are so why do you insist on using them for everything?

And as always you refuse to use any of the items that actually benefit melee/your build at all. I mean you wouldn't go and try making a spell build without items that have gem levels right? So why the hell are you so obsessed with not using any useful gear when making melee builds?

What you are trying to do here is the melee equivalent to a spell selfcast build without unleash, 0 cast speed, no mana sustain and no gem level scaling on items. Care to try that out for reference?

Yes, your build sucks. Like literally any single melee build you've posted on this forum over the years. Thing is, if we take the potential of melee as a scale from 1-10 your build is a 1. Now it's another matter whether an actual 10 on the scale can compare to top tier trigger/proxy caster builds but your issues here are on a different scale and mostly selfmade.

POE isn't designed as a game where all choices are equal or even viable, there are bad ways to do things and if you explore multiple of them at once in a single build you'll end up with a pile of trash like this and frankly, that's how it's supposed to be.

i do think youve missed ALL the points of my post. that is actually a feat. other readers seem to grasp it just fine.

and if you say 'your build sucks' (better to not say it, but you did) - maybe some examples? come actual criticism? becuse if you tell me 'you use slam, lol, slams are bad' then.. you kinda agree with me or something?

build ive made is an experiment, controlled experiment, ive outlined the preconditions and explained the outcome. nowhere did i say 'look, melee sucks' - it is precisely SLAM PLAYSTYLE that reeks. you can replace bits of the build if you want, you wont change the outcome:

- warcries are a trap. they wear off WAY faster than people think they do. anyone using them right now most likely gets ZERO bonus from them, because the effect is already gone. warcries at this point are actual noob trap (you need SIGNIFICANT (100%+) investment into duration to turn the base value into something workable)

Honestly, all you should do yourselves a favour and check duration on warcries. they wear of WAY quicker than you think, for the most time the secondary effect is NOT ACTIVE, at all!

- scaling (Fist of War, exert modifiers, warcry modifiers) is VERY weak in comparison
- tying attack speed with animation speed AND damage being dealt at the end of it means you have to invest into attack speed anyway

im perfectly aware that Earthbreaker support + ConsPath + STR stack farms ubers, this has nothing to do with SLAM PLAYSTYLE being mathematically obnoxiously bad.

Not agreeing with you and not getting your post are two different things. It's not like the post has anything new in it, it's the same stuff you've been repeating several times per year ever since i joined this forum. I could have guessed 80% of it without even reading it.

You want actual points that are wrong. Fine, here we go.

1) You play Maces, you of all people. The one who's been mocking me for years for using Nebulochs. Telling me over and over and over and over and over again how shitty maces are and yet, you insist on using them despite knowing they are bad. You are making a bad choice on purpose and then complain about a bad outcome.
2) You complain about warcries and then a) use only one warcry cluster (with one anoint on deep breaths at least) and b) the worst one of them all. Admonisher and Measured Fury clusters are the ones to take as they provide actually useful stats, not, you know, warcry buff/area of effect and 1 second debilitate?
3) You don't use second wind for your warcries crippling their uptime.
4) You don't use any of the strong uniques that would be available to your build. I mean i know you hate Abyssus for whatever reason but why no Echoes? The helm was literally made for slams and provides 45% more damage for your build with no drawback. Not to mention improved warcry uptime. There is also no Ryslata, no Circle of Guilt, no Legacy of Fury, no xophs blood, nothing. Just a bunch of 0815 rares that add nothing but resistances and life.
5) You waste a whooping 4 ascendancy nodes on totem stuff when all you have is one lone Warchief without any supports and therefor a nonexistant uptime. I mean you have 2 6-links available. If you put 4 nodes into totem stuff, then at least use one of the 6 links for a proper totem setup? You also didn't anoint Panopticon after throwing half your ascendancy into totem nodes, like what the hell?
6) Your defensive setup is a sad joke. You have tons of phys damage taken as element but barely 30k maximum damage taken for the 3 elements. And that's with Fortify and Immortal Call active. IC has barely 2 seconds uptime, you didn't invest in endurance charges as much as you could have and you also didn't link it with increased duration when it's literally half of your already measly defense.
7) You are not using Enduring Cry which is such a massive healing and sustain tool for slams.
8) You seriously used the mace hits chill mastery node
9) Your cluster jewels leave a lot to be desired. Exert medium jewels can provide perma onslaught and frenzy/power charge generation (even if unreliable it's a way better damage boost on average than what that crit cluster of yours provides)

I could probably find more if i bothered but those are the big points that stand out. Now you are going to come back at me telling me i am a POB warrior and arm chair general and what not and tell me that you know better. But the matter of fact is, you don't. Anyone with a shread of a clue in regards to slams can see that on first glance.

For me this isn't even about that bothersome melee vs spells or melee vs meta or whatever nonsense. This is just one guy complaining about an archetype basing his opinion on a selfmade build that is so freakingly bad it gives me the creeps.
As i said in my post above, if we just look at melee as an archetype, or even slams in specific and then assign a rating between 0 and 10 with ten being the optimum then that creation of yours is a 1 or 2 at best. Even if a ten is probably way out of your budget, you should at least make it past 5 before whining.

Also, who cares about warcry buff effect duration? You use them for their exert effect and in case of enduring cry for the healing, nothing else. You think the scaling is weak because you scale all the wrong stuff while leaving massive damage sources lying bare left and right. My Earthshatter build has 10 mio dps with the slam hit alone 20-30 with the spikes with similar gear level and you barely break the 2 mio here. And that in a meta where elemental reigns supreme and phys impale is considered a meme. Or to put it in another perspective, your 2 hander build here has 300k more dps than my dual Nebuloch Chieftain had when i scrapped him in 3.16. As a two handed build. Not to mention that your defense is a far cry from what that build had, you don't even have considerably more damage.

the armchair returns

you COMPLETELY miss the points, all of them. like literally, ALL OF THE POINTS - they just 'swooosh' past you, sadly

you are VERY wrong re warcries, tankiness is not a problem at all, maces > Overwhelm > 29fortify stacks (did not have a staff on hand, staves are most likely better but path differently), Ryslatha FEELS terrible for slams if you double dip on the low roll few times in a row (

and you honestly nitpick a half-assed POB of a character i deliberately NOT showered with divines managing to completely miss the main point - the math DOES NOT ADD UP for slam playstyle. it simply doesnt. you can polish this turd, swith to staves, get even more multi, finetune whatever you want and Fist of War STILL sucks as a multiplier/mechanic. warcries buffs still SUCK. exert %increased damage still suck. you STILL need to stack attack speed due to horrible animation design. how that has anything to do with what you talk about?
and on top of that you get -1 passive just for playing this playstyle

and youll tell me about fiddling with medium cluster jewels? how does that relate at all? (not to mention that for this setup crit multi just provides best outcome) like.. are you for real?

Dude, i wasn't even talking about investment so don't come with the "i didn't invest many divines" excuse. You could double or tripple your dps with same survivability with less investment.

But yeah, useless to even talk to you, can't fill a glass that's already full. Go ahead and keep blaming the game for your lack of ability but you are only embarassing yourself that way. Have a nice day.

Sid, I think the problem here is that you understand far better what the state of slams is than GGG. The reason is that GGG doesn't care. I think that GGG is more concerned with just getting by with a skeleton crew on PoE right now while most of their development resources are focused on PoE2.

"

Turtledove wrote:

Sid, I think the problem here is that you understand far better what the state of slams is than GGG. The reason is that GGG doesn't care. I think that GGG is more concerned with just getting by with a skeleton crew on PoE right now while most of their development resources are focused on PoE2.

im concerned that the 'A' team that focuses on POE2 might not be in a better shape. i treat them with caution but there are some stories circulating around (posted on 'ex-employee shares his opinion' websites). these stories are quite.. disturbing. and while i am VERY wary of their unconfirmed and biased nature - when there is smoke, there is fire

so yeah. GGG might not care (altho they did care enough to nerf Fist of War and destroy Seismic Cry that actually made Slam Playstyle a sensible option) but it might be for far worse reasons than you might think

"

Baharoth15 wrote:

Honestly Sid, what the fucking hell do you expect to get when you make builds like this?

You use maces, again, why? You yourself stated god knows how many times that they are bad, and yes they are so why do you insist on using them for everything?

And as always you refuse to use any of the items that actually benefit melee/your build at all. I mean you wouldn't go and try making a spell build without items that have gem levels right? So why the hell are you so obsessed with not using any useful gear when making melee builds?

What you are trying to do here is the melee equivalent to a spell selfcast build without unleash, 0 cast speed, no mana sustain and no gem level scaling on items. Care to try that out for reference?

Yes, your build sucks. Like literally any single melee build you've posted on this forum over the years. Thing is, if we take the potential of melee as a scale from 1-10 your build is a 1. Now it's another matter whether an actual 10 on the scale can compare to top tier trigger/proxy caster builds but your issues here are on a different scale and mostly selfmade.

POE isn't designed as a game where all choices are equal or even viable, there are bad ways to do things and if you explore multiple of them at once in a single build you'll end up with a pile of trash like this and frankly, that's how it's supposed to be.

yeah this is when i stop arguing and vote with my wallet.

if they removed melee completely i don't think anyone would notice at this point


edit: DOTA 2 not every hero is viable for every situation. but they are ALL viable for certain situations and timings. they have been polished for those specific cases. what works in casual will not work in professional vice versa

what works in USA does not entirely work against Chinese dota styles. they are all unique and most of the time you will see different meta's in different regions which is a beautiful thing to see.

in PoE yes its a different genre, has dead gems . outclassed and out purposed with better more modern gems. its like releasing new heroes without tuning the old ones to compete with them. poe is not polishing old gems or balancing the game to make melee gems work and saying ( wait for poe 2 ) i guess my wallet will wait till then too .

its like telling someone to be content playing Board games like Battleships, Monopoly, Candyland while everyone else plays games on Steam, Blizzard, etc