widescreen resolution removed from the game.

I don't know who needs to hear this, but... This game is not real life, and trade in PoE is not the same as trade IRL. Anyone thinking they can apply IRL economics to the game equivocally 1:1 is wildly confused.

It's a video game. A cooperative PvE game. A cooperative PvE game in which some players voluntarily choose to play with a competitive mindset. No amount of word salad from Google can change that

And again, even if this was the most cut throat PvP game on the market, none of you are making arguments for why black bars are an appropriate solution over the other, better alternatives here.

The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard
Last edited by tackle70 on Jun 15, 2024, 10:32:47 PM
1:1? Gods no. But last i saw, all the terminology used and how trades occur are pretty similar to market economics and Perfect Competition is a very accurate description of PoE. Currency, seller account, sale type... Only someone truly confused would ignore the huge amount of similar pointers, simply because it's a game.

But i do still wonder... Never mind, you wouldn't get it.
Ruthless should be [Removed by Support].
Last edited by AdRonZh3Ro on Jun 15, 2024, 11:03:58 PM
Okay, I'll bite too.

"
trades occur are pretty similar to market economics and Perfect Competition is a very accurate description of PoE


"
Perfect competition is said to exist when all criteria are met, which is rarely (if ever) observed in the real world. These criteria include; all firms contribute insignificantly to the market, all firms sell an identical product, all firms are price takers, market share has no influence on price, both buyers and sellers have complete or "perfect" information, resources are perfectly mobile and firms can enter or exit the market without cost. Under idealized perfect competition, there are many buyers and sellers within the market and prices reflect the overall supply and demand. Another key feature of a perfectly competitive market is the variation in products being sold by firms. The firms within a perfectly competitive market are small, with no larger firms controlling a significant proportion of market share. These firms sell almost identical products with minimal differences or in-cases perfect substitutes to another firm's product.


Lets address criteria you're trying to drag here.

1) all firms contribute insignificantly to the market

TFT mirror shops and people who had paid real money to have 100+ public tabs for trade, vs my 4 public tabs of non-crafted trash no one buys?

2) all firms sell an identical product

outside of unique items, people who are willing to engage in poe crafting (which I hope you agree is not an activity for every player) have much better "product" to sell than people who are more interested in actually playing game and trying to make money off their farming loot. Only raw currency/fragments are suited for latter role.

3) all firms are price takers

Absolute majority of sellers just sets prices according to what 3rd party software calculated, based on statistics of existing pricing, so this part is true. Except the mirror items segment, where supply is lower than demand, and supplies can easily reach cartel agreements.

4) market share has no influence on price

There were meme cases like someone buying all hinekora locks, and same as above, market share depends on specific type of supply. Mirror and crafter shops don't bother with market research, can set whatever prices they want.

5) both buyers and sellers have complete or "perfect" information

Lol, perfect information in poe? Only a handful of people in playerbase can determine any item's usefulness at a glance. Most buyers have read a few specific build guides at best.

6) resources are perfectly mobile and firms can enter or exit the market without cost

Can I refund real money spent on premium tabs? Won't be able to compete with nolifers unless become a nolifer myself.

7) Another key feature of a perfectly competitive market is the variation in products being sold by firms. The firms within a perfectly competitive market are small, with no larger firms controlling a significant proportion of market share. These firms sell almost identical products with minimal differences or in-cases perfect substitutes to another firm's product.

Yep, variations are limited, but this cannot possibly be compared to real life, as "firms" do not design "products" themselves. It is GGG who chose builds using synergy A,B, and C, as the most broken OP, thus every "firm" prices those building bricks higher than others. If I could make items in item editor before selling them, this point could've made some sense.
"
Echothesis wrote:


1) all firms contribute insignificantly to the market

TFT mirror shops and people who had paid real money to have 100+ public tabs for trade, vs my 4 public tabs of non-crafted trash no one buys?


People only buy sick legacy items in dead standard for some silly side projects.

shocking news that the non existent standard player base has little to no interest for mentioned random items

"

Can I refund real money spent on premium tabs? Won't be able to compete with nolifers unless become a nolifer myself.

Lack of knowledge or interest to learn.

"

Yep, variations are limited, but this cannot possibly be compared to real life, as "firms" do not design "products" themselves. It is GGG who chose builds using synergy A,B, and C, as the most broken OP, thus every "firm" prices those building bricks higher than others.

Ah yes it's for sure GGG who creates all those builds and puts together ideas with a good synergy. Sounds like you mistaken D4 with PoE lol
Flames and madness. I'm so glad I didn't miss the fun.
Last edited by Pashid on Jun 16, 2024, 3:33:55 AM
The idea that the economy in PoE makes the game PvP competitive, when all the mechanics of the economy are demonstrably, objectively cooperative, is ludicrous nonsense.

For example, there is no such thing as finite resources in PoE. There is no upper bound and no limit to the amount of currency and items players can generate. Major elements of IRL economic theory, like scarcity, simply do not apply in the same way in a *video game*.

The idea that trade, based on cooperative mechanics, in a video game, somehow transforms that game into competitive PvP, is so silly that I won't be dignifying it further unless someone wants to actually discuss game mechanics.

"PoE is a competitive PvP game because it has a trade economy and I can find IRL economic theory that understands IRL trade through the lens of competition, therefore PoE should be understood as a competitive game" is fallacious nonsense.

1 year, 303 days.

Fix it.
The 352nd character to hit Level 100 in Standard
The 82nd character to hit Delve 1000 in Standard
Last edited by tackle70 on Jun 16, 2024, 9:25:06 AM
Spoiler
Sure.

Screen:
Disclaimer: Calculations within 1% margin of error.
A)U.Wide. 1132 x 1.27 = 1437.64 pixels. 13,5% wider for each side. 305 pixels wider than standard.
B)16:9. 1132 pixels wide.

Wide Range Reference:
16:9(Top).
Stacked: U.Wide > 16:9 > 4:3 (Middle).
U.Wide (Bottom).
Strong Box Reference (Middle Left).
All images stacked adequately to assure quality.


Skill in Question:
Tornado Shot
Lightning Strike
Bladestorm

Empirical Tests:
The baseline used was un-juiced T16 with 90%+ quant.

Tree used:


Map Sample used:


Videos:
Tests for U.Wide vs 16:9 agro distance.
U.Wide x 16:9 Top Left against mildly active enemies:https://puu.sh/K8z8S/125159ac5a.mp4.
Enemies do not agro.

Wide x 16.9 Approach against fairly active enemies:https://puu.sh/K8zaw/ea95ea59e7.mp4.
16:9 enemies agro.

Direct horizontal Sight wide:https://puu.sh/K8zc4/b4955c3af5.mp4.
10 seconds to agro.

Direct horizontal Sight 16:9:https://puu.sh/K8zc7/199e978cbc.mp4.
Instant agro.

This proves an advantage exists. But you might as well say that it's impractical to use it on a regular play.

Extra paper 0% exp TS Build:
Build proof:


Essence Monster 1 x 0% exp TS build:
https://puu.sh/K8zj6/c7e5856e6a.mp4.
@24 seconds, meteor does 3/4 of my life. Unsafe at 16:9. Pretty safe at U.Wide.

Essence Monster 2 x 0% exp TS build:
Wide x essence:https://puu.sh/K8zto/4729d40dee.mp4
I can reliably keep track of him. Blood corruption rarely spawns near me. Yes, i smooth brained near the end with 16:9.
16:9 x essence:https://puu.sh/K8zty/920fc8e23c.mp4
I can't keep track of him in the same way. Blood corruption spawns near me constantly. I could attack from offscreen, but that diminishes damage substantially.

The survivability aspect i'm putting in question pertains to the distance one has from the monsters when you are playing an absolute paper build.

The damage aspect i'm putting in questions pertains to the damage output sustainability and increased damage from Far Shot.

But you are probably right, MB is not budget friendly. You know what is? Headhunter. https://poe.ninja/economy/necropolis/unique-accessories?name=Headhunter
Which also makes able to do relatively juiced maps with mirror of delirium. I made a video with the same character but it was too large and i don't have a way to cut it atm.

Oneshot BS build:
Build proof. Forgot about life: 5693 mana:851 ES:0.


Essence Monster 3 x Paper(?) BS build x 4:3:
https://puu.sh/K8zyc/6dcbc00b24.mp4

Then we convert that same BS build to the same stats as the TS build:


Essence Monster 4 x Paper BS Build:
https://puu.sh/K8zFX/2f6a915de8.mp4
Yeah.

So, should you get U.Wide or keep 16:9?
Tornado Shot: U.Wide gives QoL and damage increase for TS and similar builds.
Lightning Strike: similar performance, but has tradeoff as projectiles do less damage.
Bladestorm: literal waste of money.
"
Echothesis wrote:
- Conclusion 6: Fastest way of achieving desirable goal for majority of PoE players has no correlation with access to ways of negating mobs attack capabilities, including one known as "Ultrawide aspect ratio attack range".

Let's see what you concluded and apply it to a few simple questions:
U.Wide doesn't affect tanky builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL.
U.Wide doesn't affect oneshot builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL.
U.Wide doesn't affect melee builds? You would be correct. Mostly QoL. LS is not melee. /s.
U.Wide doesn't affect ranged builds? Partially correct. It will increase Tornado Shot and Toxic Rain damage and survivability(builds that need to click on the enemy location precisely), but Kinetic Bolt, Split Arrow and other projectile based builds are unaffected.
U.Wide doesn't affect paper builds? You would be incorrect. U.Wide is large enough so that it can and will affect mapping survivability and visibility.


Which makes me wonder. You yourself said that U.Wide "has no correlation with access to ways of negating mobs attack capabilities", yet i've proved the advantage exists and i've proved that it does affect survivability in projectile paper builds, and let me stress this again, does fuck all for melee, so i'll ask again, why try to force GGG do address something that beyond U.Wide is at best useless, by your own words, and at worst gives an advantage to mostly ranged builds, also being a QoL that GGG doesn't benefit one cent off of?


1)It has a player based economy, making it inherently competitive. Denial and lack of understanding is hardly proof against. Most of the best delve players literally keep their accounts hidden as to not disclose information to others.
2)Which is bannable.
3)It is. It's like saying water isn't wet and refusing to elaborate. Your opinion doesn't change a fact.

All proof against is saying "Nuh uh". But keep at it, i'm sure who is winning everyone's hearts acting like that.

0 year, 7 days that proof was given that further extending vision is abusable. No "fix" needed.

1)Which is "illegal" by GGG rules.

2)Conjecture. All items have fixed "obtainable" attributes.

4)Supply and demand corrects the price at the end.

5)Everyone has the same information of what the item does, not what can be used for. One has no correlation to the other.

6)Talking about trade, not what GGG sells, which has no correlation.

7)You mean like graveyard?

Also, cherry picking the statements as literal or subjective when it suits you is really telling.
Ruthless should be [Removed by Support].
Last edited by AdRonZh3Ro on Jun 16, 2024, 11:55:53 AM
idk if its funny or not, don't know my own hardware according to the 32:9 haters.

5120x1440 aint 32:9 btw guys, fix your hardware, nothing wrong with big black bars you guys are just silly billies for wanting nice things!

I honestly give up, at least with all the posts maybe GGG will see this and at least consider a better solution.

Edit:

Should have maybe emphasised the sarcasm a bit more it seems, just repeating what Pashid said, he knows more about my computer than I do it seems.

Haters gonna hate sadly...
Last edited by Vequis_uk on Jun 17, 2024, 7:26:14 AM
"
Vequis_uk wrote:
5120x1440 aint 32:9 btw guys
It is.

"
Vequis_uk wrote:
don't know my own hardware according to the 32:9 haters.
Thanks for confirming that yourself.
"
Vequis_uk wrote:
idk if its funny or not, don't know my own hardware according to the 32:9 haters.


Apparently you don't, according to yourself. Come on, a calculator can do that math for you
The opposite of knowledge is not illiteracy, but the illusion of knowledge.
"
Vequis_uk wrote:
idk if its funny or not, don't know my own hardware according to the 32:9 haters.

5120x1440 aint 32:9 btw guys, fix your hardware, nothing wrong with big black bars you guys are just silly billies for wanting nice things!

I honestly give up, at least with all the posts maybe GGG will see this and at least consider a better solution.


This thread is the gift that keeps on giving.

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