Torchlight infinite is a POE clone but heres things it did differently that i liked

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CJMIchalik wrote:

Why recruit for other games. If you don't like this one and prefer that one, than play it. If anyone here believes that Torchlight is going to be great than they weren't part of the first two episodes.

It's an important way to learn about better games, that's why I got here from D3

My biggest gripe with the OP - the original Torchlight released before PoE, so calling it a clone when it came before PoE is just wrong.

If anything, virtually every arpg style game is a diablo clone given how the genre evolved.

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KaiserBlade42 wrote:

because of freedome of speech.

You don't get Freedom of speech on a private forum. GGG can censor any way they like BTW.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

My biggest gripe with the OP - the original Torchlight released before PoE, so calling it a clone when it came before PoE is just wrong.

The game has put the tracing paper over PoE. Their tilesets look like reskinned versions of the PoE tilesets. You can call out the corresponding PoE area as you play - Foothills, The Tunnel, Ramparts etc.

The gameplay also is just a cartoon version of PoE gameplay. The whole game looks like a reskinned PoE. Calling it a clone is not wrong (and not inaccurate as the original Torchlight is nothing like this - it was a D2 clone).

I wouldn't even call this a copy, it's well executed plagiarism.

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t0lkien wrote:

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KaiserBlade42 wrote:

because of freedome of speech.

You don't get Freedom of speech on a private forum. GGG can censor any way they like BTW.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

My biggest gripe with the OP - the original Torchlight released before PoE, so calling it a clone when it came before PoE is just wrong.

The game has put the tracing paper over PoE. Their tilesets look like reskinned versions of the PoE tilesets. You can call out the corresponding PoE area as you play - Foothills, The Tunnel, Ramparts etc.

The gameplay also is just a cartoon version of PoE gameplay. The whole game looks like a reskinned PoE. Calling it a clone is not wrong (and not inaccurate as the original Torchlight is nothing like this - it was a D2 clone).

I wouldn't even call this a copy, it's well executed plagiarism.

The entire arpg market is a Diablo clone at its core. Its undeniable. The rest is creative inspiration on that foundation.

Nothing wrong with that at all. It's better for everyone as each developer puts "their spin" on it.

Everything comes full circle however as we await the next-gen version of Diablo.

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t0lkien wrote:

The game has put the tracing paper over PoE. Their tilesets look like reskinned versions of the PoE tilesets. You can call out the corresponding PoE area as you play - Foothills, The Tunnel, Ramparts etc.

The gameplay also is just a cartoon version of PoE gameplay. The whole game looks like a reskinned PoE. Calling it a clone is not wrong (and not inaccurate as the original Torchlight is nothing like this - it was a D2 clone).

I wouldn't even call this a copy, it's well executed plagiarism.

Torchlight Infinite even has a built in loot filter to make all the "shing" noises. The filter with the colorful cartoon graphics makes playing the game like being in a casino.

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t0lkien wrote:

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KaiserBlade42 wrote:

because of freedome of speech.

You don't get Freedom of speech on a private forum. GGG can censor any way they like BTW.

"

SeCKSEgai wrote:

My biggest gripe with the OP - the original Torchlight released before PoE, so calling it a clone when it came before PoE is just wrong.

The game has put the tracing paper over PoE. Their tilesets look like reskinned versions of the PoE tilesets. You can call out the corresponding PoE area as you play - Foothills, The Tunnel, Ramparts etc.

The gameplay also is just a cartoon version of PoE gameplay. The whole game looks like a reskinned PoE. Calling it a clone is not wrong (and not inaccurate as the original Torchlight is nothing like this - it was a D2 clone).

I wouldn't even call this a copy, it's well executed plagiarism.

I think the problem here is people don't realize how little is "original" to PoE. Maybe its the younger gamers since they can only reference what they've played.

Auras aren't a new concept, but the use of an "aura" to purely buff self was rarely used whereas in PoE its practically essential now. Foothills, Tunnels, Ramparts are all common scenery for the genre and definitely not an exclusive introduced in PoE.

Infinite looks exactly how I'd expect a torchlight game to look, cartoon imagery with a mix of medieval and future themes.

Also, PoE is effectively a D2 clone just with its own flavor mixed in. And given that D1 and D2 basically set the groundwork for arpg to become a genre, there's no reason not to expect variations of aspects originally seen in those games.

Portals are a Diablo thing, but also a DnD thing and even goes beyond that.

For the sake of summing up gameplay experience, fine, it's like PoE. But PoE is really just a version people were hoping D3 would be (at least for a time).

If you really think about it, everything is just an evolution from Diablo 1 - better graphics, more in depth and complex gameplay, but still click skills and movement.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

I think the problem here is people don't realize how little is "original" to PoE... <snip for brevity>

I played the original Diablo beta. I also played 2nd Edition AD&D and then 1st Edition for "purity", but lets not go there (D&D did not have portals BTW - at least not unless specifically created by some massively powerful mage in a module-specific story). I've played every ARPG that has ever been made, I think. I'm pretty familiar with where things came from, and how. We are not talking about thematic/genre defining features here like point & click movement, or isometric locked camera. We are talking about straight up plagiarism.

When you can tell which area of PoE the TL:I tileset has been copied from the moment you see it, it's way past the acceptable level of "cloning" all subsequent games in a genre do. It's so obvious it's impressive. I'm willing to bet they extracted the PoE level/tileset assets from a build, and literally layered their new artwork over the top, it's that 1:1.

Same for the gameplay. It looks, feels, and plays like PoE - from the movement to the particle and spell effects. It's well done but it's intentional, shameless copying.

Re. PoE being a Diablo 2 clone, those days have long gone. PoE has been extending and iterating upon the genre for years now. Where in D2 do you have the equivalent of a linked skill/support gems system that is effectively in-game visual scripting empowering almost limitless builds and combinations? Functional currency? Massive (frankly intimidating) skill wheels? An enduring endgame mapping and boss progression system? Delve? Heist? Any of the other multitude of league mechanics? Leagues offering the equivalent of an expac's worth of new content every 3 months?

PoE has been the genre leader and definer for almost a decade now for a reason. I'm not fanboying - I have lots of criticisms of the game (and I still love all the Diablo's) - but this is just objectively true.

I honestly think you're giving too much credit to PoE without considering the inspirations for its content.

When I think of unique and innovative, I think of a game like the Portal Series. Portals and guns are commonly seen in games, but a combination of the two not so much. Using portals to solve puzzles of varying degrees of difficulty and creating an entire lore to integrate with the half-life universe make them very unique titles in a sea of puzzle games.

PoE on the other hand to me is just an evolution of D2 gameplay. Instead of farming a handful of bosses and key areas, there are maps and more bosses to create a little more variety. Respeccing characters and a lack of means to "upgrade" storage space were obvious changes.

As for content and leagues/expansions - they all basically boil down to kill stuff and get loot. Most league mechanics are really just a variant of breach with some added nuance to give it its own identity.

I'm not sure why you'd expect particle effects to be unique. If I think of fireballs, they've more or less looked exactly like one would expect in most usage, whether its the original Super Mario Bros or Dragon Age. They don't appear the same, but the visual makes sense given the hardware limitation and artwork for the game.

The only "original" fireball that comes to mind is the street fighter series. While Dhalsim had a traditional fireball, Ryu, Ken and others with similar fighting styles had a more unique look with the imprint of the hands.

If anything, I would say the visuals in torchlight remind me more of Wildstar because of the artistic flair and cartoon imagery, even down to the particle effects. It's not like Wildstar "stole" the look from Torchlight or vice-versa.

You say that PoE has changed so much to be thought of as a D2 clone and is its own unique experience, but I would argue its essentially the same D2 experience just with much needed changes along with very undesired changes (see Kalandra forum threads).

An arpg at its core is killing waves of enemies until facing a more significant boss type enemy. PoE may give you more potential options in how you kill said waves, but clearing a map in PoE isn't much different from clearing a cow level in D2. I still miss frozen orb, but I sure as hell don't miss immunities.

But really action rpg is actually a broader topic, as even something like Fallout 4 is an action rpg being a role play shooter. As for the hack n slash dungeon crawler style from an isometric perspective, Diablo wasn't even the first. It's the success of D1 and D2 that effectively drove the genre (sub-genre technically).

The closest thing to "verbatim" I saw was a leap slam... but its a leap slam. You can even see that in some movie trailers albeit in slo-mo and a lot less height. Right now it appears to me that the complaints of a shameless copy are akin to complaining about seeing a rocket jump in other shooters. Sure it may have originated in Doom and/or Quake, but its usage in subsequent shooter style games wasn't some shameless rip off but just something to be expected. Like if any of the base version counterstrikes had a rocket jump, it wouldn't make sense (because it would be instant death), but if Unreal Tournament didn't do it, it be sacrilegious.

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CJMIchalik wrote:

Why recruit for other games. If you don't like this one and prefer that one, than play it. If anyone here believes that Torchlight is going to be great than they weren't part of the first two episodes.

Comparing one game to another is a form of healthy criticism. It lets us better to show GGG things that TLI did right which could be taken and added to PoE. It's no different than when PoE fans showed Diablo 3 devs what they did right in making a spiritual successor to Diablo 2 and beyond.

POE is diablo clone period. Anyways, been playing Torchlight Infinite on both PC and mobile..loving the crossplay as I can play anywhere. Content-wise POE is still superior but TLI is still in beta so we can expect more to come.