Archnemesis mods are better fit for a Bossing mechanic, not a Mapping mechanic

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reveng3r wrote:

Any juice, encounter (ritual, breach, dilirium) or simple F2-F4 get loot buttons leads to instant oneshot.

That's my experience as well. Archnemesis modifiers have made Mapping mechanics very harsh. I don't believe the same would be true if Archnemesis was more of a Bossing mechanic instead.

+1

My first thought when I saw Archnemesis as a league in 3.17 was "oh! This is a lot like Metamorph where you make your own bosses, kind of like Essence as well which is also a boss mechanic".

It ended up being a test for a non-boss overhaul this whole time, but it was playtested and designed as a boss creation mechanic meaning it simply didn't work.

why do you want to be rewarded for killing something that doesn't fight back?

if they follow your suggestion, in the best case they buff bosses so they're more difficult than archnemesis mobs.

in the worst case they also buff bosses but bind all map progress' xp and loot by killing archnemesis mobs behind killing the more difficult boss.

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VolcanoElixir wrote:

My first thought when I saw Archnemesis as a league in 3.17 was "oh! This is a lot like Metamorph where you make your own bosses, kind of like Essence as well which is also a boss mechanic".

It ended up being a test for a non-boss overhaul this whole time, but it was playtested and designed as a boss creation mechanic meaning it simply didn't work.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Archnem league was fine for bossing; the switch over to using them for mapping is the main problem. I doubt people would have been upset at all had they just implemented it like a "random Metamorph" mechanic, but instead we have another thread with like 30+ pages asking for it to be removed, haha. It's quite problematic.

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Mike_84 wrote:

While the archnemesis core integration could be done in several different ways indeed, like a random roaming archnemesis monster per map, or 1-few randomly generated frozen pre-modded startable monsters per map, etc, I feel their intension from start was to replace normal rares in general.

Their pre-balancing and actual deep playtesting failed.
Their instant replacement went really bad, no questions about this.
However, I accepted this, got used to them by now, these are the new rares.
Even if I still have to skip several past league mechanisms which got unplayable by them.

My only problem remaining, that these rares invalidated all bosses, rouge exiles, betrayers, etc.
Rares are way harder than old big guys like map bosses, which is pretty disappointing.

I would have rather it gotten the beastiary treatment -- where it was gone a long while but when it came back was far better than the original league experience.

Archnem mods as a league worked fine because you could control what mods you were willing to risk going up against but infusing them into random rares not taking into consideration potential map mods was silly.

Really tho the growing lack of build diversity is being helped when its gotta be viable for most of the potential combinations.

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

Archnem mods as a league worked fine because you could control what mods you were willing to risk going up against but infusing them into random rares not taking into consideration potential map mods was silly.

Agreed. Chris talks a lot about the idea of visibility of mods, presumably because the idea is to see which mods the enemy has, and then to choose to engage in combat with them or not. But I feel like this doesn't match the mapping gameplay very well.

Think about it. When do you make decisions about whether or not to engage with a map? Usually when you're rolling the map; that's where you're paying the most attention to mods and the like. When you're in the map, you don't stop to think about whether or not to attack something unless it's something special - like a boss. Rares aren't bosses; there's just too many of them and they yield too few rewards to be bosses. They're part of the mapping mechanic. That's the fundamental disconnect: Archnem mods are great for bossing mechanics (choosing whether to fight a strong enemy, buffing them to get greater rewards, etc.), but not for mapping mechanics (choosing map mods ahead of time and then trying to clear waves and packs of monsters).

I enjoyed archnemesis when it was essentially Metamorph 2.0, because I knew what to expect from a roided up pseudo-boss encounter. When I make a trickster with temporal bubble and heralding minions, I know exactly what kind of pain I'm getting myself into.

In mapping, you have those same pseudo-bosses in every encounter that wrecks the flow of gameplay which you have no control over. The worse part is they hardly drop rewards to justify their difficulty.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

I enjoyed archnemesis when it was essentially Metamorph 2.0, because I knew what to expect from a roided up pseudo-boss encounter. When I make a trickster with temporal bubble and heralding minions, I know exactly what kind of pain I'm getting myself into.

In mapping, you have those same pseudo-bosses in every encounter that wrecks the flow of gameplay which you have no control over. The worse part is they hardly drop rewards to justify their difficulty.

Exactly. Stopping to read mods on rare mobs feels disruptive for mapping, but stopping to read mods on a pseudo-boss optional encounter makes sense and could be very rewarding (esp. if they include the rewards for the mods from last league). That would be fun and interesting, but putting it on rare mobs in the mapping experience isn't as fun (due to the disruption, feeling like you're fighting tons of mini bosses, having to stop and read to survive) nor as rewarding.

Agreeing with (many) previous posters. In my case (not speaking for others) by all means slow me down, more if needs be. Challenge me tactically. Make it harder on a different axis. I don't need more loot, just stop one shotting me at random. At least more than in recent previous leagues. Take the spikes out of the grind and put them in bosses where it feels like they belong. Or make the grind shorter and keep it spiky.