Feedback about paid battle pass and the exclusion of Standard

You guys (other than Turtle) are responding emotionally, and it's leading you to make more than one incorrect assumption about how I feel. More importantly, it's led you to the most classic cognitive bias of all: denial, sometimes called the "Ought-Is" fallacy. Your feelings on what OUGHT TO BE are blinding you to what IS.

Here's the reality that you guys are rejecting:
GGG wants the people playing in Standard to play in the challenge leagues instead.

That's a fact. It is the truth. Whether GGG are right or wrong to think this way honestly doesn't even matter; all that matters is that they DO THINK THIS WAY. They've been extremely consistent (and not exactly subtle) about this stance in both word and deed, going back several years. So, by all means, please "make an in-depth post explaining to me how I'm wrong." I would LOVE to be wrong.

But I'm not.

So, how does this relate to the actual thread topic? Well, like I said earlier: the entire point of the new MTX being exclusive is to specifically exclude standard league players. Of course GGG could open it up at league end; they could open it up NOW. But I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on that one. If there was any intention of ever giving these skins to standard players, GGG would have just put them in the MTX store. They probably would have sold a lot more of them that way, but the bottom line wasn't their only objective here.

You don't have to LIKE any of this. Not that it matters, but I don't like it either. But finding a truth unpleasant doesn't make it less true.

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

What else does GGG have to do to make it obvious that they don't want people's primary interaction with the game to be in the mode which is impossible for them to balance? They've been bribing us for years to play in the temp leagues by just allowing Standard to be a dumping ground for imbalanced nonsense and by offering the "best" versions of the new systems exclusively to challenge players. I genuinely feel sorry for everyone who missed out on Ultimatum; that league was a ton of fun.

That was an... interesting take.

Standard mode can be balanced, starting with force conversion of legacy items, like when they did swap all dodge affixes for suppression ones. If some item was removed from the game completely, wipe it and spawn some ex and the gems/catalysts it contained in a new remove-only tab.

It may come as a surprise, but some standard players are not here because of "cheese" legacy gear, but exactly because they don't want to be "bribed" around and repeat excessively long league grind loops over and over again for an imaginary "challenge". Yes, I do use legacy gear now, and spent a lot to buy some of it, but would prefer item conversion to losing my characters altogether, and the masses of honestly-earned currency would still be unaffected by such conversion.

The point of the game for me is to construct and explore new builds, and that is easier when you don't have to spend extra weeks on farming all the currency and items and gems and catalysts from scratch.

Yes, a number of people do enjoy the concept of "fresh start challenge", they are easier to manipulate and to milk money/retention from, but this is not the reason to view standard mode players as annoying appendage you have to tolerate with gritting teeth.

Also, I did play the Ultimatum and liked the concept. Adding it to standard would be nice, even if it also promotes the worst sides of PoE balance: the cluttered mess with "oneshot or be oneshotted" outcome.

I really enjoy this pass just missing the lasat 2 maps for the HH. I don't see what every one is complaining about? you dont like it? don't buy it no harm done.

The Bad thing in my opinion is the sirius gloves, I feel it's such a niche thing to use compared to the other items really that it didn't make that much sense in to having? But i'm sure they will refresh this with new items for the next league (hopfully)

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nakuz wrote:

I really enjoy this pass just missing the lasat 2 maps for the HH. I don't see what every one is complaining about? you dont like it? don't buy it no harm done.

The Bad thing in my opinion is the sirius gloves, I feel it's such a niche thing to use compared to the other items really that it didn't make that much sense in to having? But i'm sure they will refresh this with new items for the next league (hopfully)

Yes, don't think anyone here was asking for handouts, it is just funny how GGG struggles to ignore the standard mode and dedicate so much time and effort to instead milk an extra bit of money from their faithful league players.

Just fixing the glaring QoL issues with trade/loot pickup/stash management/scrolls (why are identify scrolls still exist?) would improve their retention.

And with some more work, mustering the bravery to tame the balance with radical and long-overdue measures, the whole standard can be brought in line with the leagues.

poe "oldie" here.

the purpose of leagues WAS to let players come in and play in a fresh environment with a reset economy.

AND, as a beta test for new game mechanics.

this means essentially players are beta testers to make POE better.

to entice players to go league, powerful league specific uniques WERE introduced. Head hunter comes to mind.

to further add incentive, GGG added league cosmetic rewards.

At this point all is fine and dandy. if you dont play league, it's impossible to get the rewards. fine enough. some people prefer to play with their OP gear or struggle to make their build work or cant dedicate time to restart from scratch. for whatever reason they choose to play standard.

THEY LOSE NOTHING if they dont play league.

the main cause of alarm is that for this season pass, you need to spend 30$ AND unlock it in league.

i used to play standard, then became league only. recently i've found myself unable to play leagues anymore as its too much work to refarm everything and would reasonably not be able to be as strong as my std character so i went back to std.

as a std player, i find this season pass.... distasteful. all because its league specific.

sure a lot of people play league nowadays, but to introduce a PAID mtx reward that you NEED to go on league in other to obtain is.... ridiculous.

the argument of "if you dont play league then you can just dont get it" is sound. it is a solid argument, but to me its more of respecting the player base. leagues were meant to supplement standard players.

i dont know the numbers but people who play on standard i would assume are long time fans of ggg/poe.

i can understand battlepasses DONT WORK for std players as we have most things unlocked anyway, but bear in mind this is a PAID battle pass. paid cosmetics.

one main distinction between GGG's implementation and all the other battlepasses in the market is this:

GAME GENRE

in other game such as apex legends/mtg arena/battle royale shooters etc, is that their seasons technically apply to all players. there is no "STANDARD".

when you play those games, everyone is more or less at equal standing as there's no separate league (unless you compare ranked vs unranked). their "battle pass" progression is earned by playing the game and earning xp/watever points.

POE IS NOT THE SAME as these other games. you have to actively STOP PLAYING STANDARD, and play on league in other to progress.

a better implementation of the battle pass is instead of basing the rewards on map completion, make it based on experience gained.

this way, standard players can purchase the pass and wont immediately gain everything. they still need to earn their way up.

in any case, since i dont plan on playing league anymore... this battle pass is a hard pass.

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nakuz wrote:

I don't see what every one is complaining about? you dont like it? don't buy it no harm done.

If you don't like it then ignore it is probably the most dangerous and stupid thing you can do in life, let alone in whats supposed to be your fun time.
That kind of attitude led to the rise of predatory mechanics, FOMO and the microtransaction plague instead of base game content.
'No harm done' is the exact excuse that publishers have used to exploit their player bases over the last few years especially

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ARealLifeCaribbeanPirate wrote:

GGG wants the people playing in Standard to play in the challenge leagues instead.

This is indeed well known, and I came here to express my dislike on this stance to GGG.

Standard players already lose out on content, play in a badly inflated trading economy, and receive bashing from the rest of the community, but still decide to choose this game mode for various reasons.

The incentive to play standard for me is continuing builds from previous leagues, minmaxing them, getting further in the endgame, trying out many many more builds than possible in league within the same time, less time spent leveling, less focus on economy for people who have already established builds, and just playing the game without chasing efficiency.

Legacy items are not the main reason people decide to play on standard, it is just the one thing league players cannot have and envy standard players for, but even legacy items are semi-balanced by their price.

I would gladly give up all legacy items if GGG would not disincentivise playing standard so much.

I hope GGG doesn't continue this trend of excluding Standard players from content where it wouldn't take additional effort to allow it.