Why are their mobile games with better pvp? Or games with less cash shop funds & less playerbase?

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kuciol wrote:

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PrairieTutanka wrote:

The reason for Royal, was because if it was connected to the main game, it'd reveal how out of balance the main game is. That's the reason for separating it from the main game.


To say PVE'rs only want alternating meta's & not balance is your opinion only, if polled you'd see the votes on that would be 50%/50% at least. From what I can tell, most want the bottom-down skills to be as good as the top. So actually people hecka want balance. I personally don't care about alternating seasons, like Magic The Gathering standard has.

Personally, even IF you get the best gear. You don't even have a proper town to show it off. What,.. 10 people sitting at the stash & quickly running off or some ditch of a small hideout? All because the further we head into the future, the games projection plan has to copy a 1990's game only, aka Diablo 2?? POE 2 wants better combat, for skill-based. Overall I want to pvp with my main char, not a royal char.

" It can't be pvp, it can't be a mmo " yet this game could probably have another 10 years of updates. If you really believe Leagues are the best thing to be talking about, than sure go ahead for the millionth thread about that.

I'll be over here talking about pvp battlefields, arenas, & bigger social towns. Fair enough.

As for endgame gear competition, to each their own I guess, I know Asmongold personally likes collecting mounts. Tho overall the lesson to be learned is variety. Not just 1 avenue.



" What about the numbers! the big damage? how are they gonna make pvp, because we have big damage, how how... " kek

You do realize I'm from a mmofps game, where a lvl 1 can kill a lvl 220, because it's skill > over stats or gear. Stats & gear, should add more tools your your belt, tho not be planned for a I-win-button. Everyone has blind spots. That's reality.

Alternating meta is GGG's way of doing things, thats how they want it, they said it multiple times. PoE is game about builds, always was and always will be. Stop trying to change core of what it is just to suit you stupid idea of pvp. Just go play a game that focuses on that.

This is not MMO, FPS or any MOBA so stop comparing it to them. PvP just doest fit here, its stupid idea. The sheer amount of possibilities PoE gives makes pvp not viable, ever. Or are you trying to say that they need to destroy dudes 5 mirror build because "pvp" that nobody besides you want? Just no.

In my thread " Explain in 10 words of less, what would make POE a better game " - theirs people who asked for pvp updates. So that's just you. The main pvp'ers aren't voicing their opinion on this thread yet much, but they've voiced their opinion in other threads. So far this thread has attracted the PVE'ers who want their delicate PVE updates. The irony is you PVE'ers aren't even satisfied with your patches, after getting 8 years worth of updates for PVE alone. Tons of threads talking about the same PVE stuff. Than you have the audacity to come into a pvp update thread & complain for more PVE updates. You guys wouldn't know the balance of fair variety of updates, if it fell from the sky. Your spoiled brats in my opinion. If the games PVE is so riveting, than why are you even on the forums, it should be so fun, your playing it right now? On the other hand, PVP experience is a ghost town, so thus the forums are a good place to talk about further pvp updates. I already mentioned, their isn't another pvp rpg to " go to ".

Most MMO's have similar problems with pvp updates, besides Guild Wars 2 or Planetside 2, Alllll of the rest... have these same forum debates about it, I'm sure. If PVE'ers get to voice their opinion about how dissatisfied they are with the latest patch, for some generic League debate, crafting stuff, or lack of a auction house. Well I'm going to equally voice my opinion about what I want updated too. To say I can't have my updates, but you can have yours, or that your speaking for the entire POE community, isn't true. In my humble opinion I find anyone advocating for a PVE only game in the year 2021 to be a noob TBH. This isn't 1990's Everquest.

Every pvp multiplayer rpg, should have both, pvp, social reasons to meet other players, & pve - mmo or not. At whatever scale they can figure that out, toward. So far this game only has 1 option. That reason isn't because people voted, it's a number of other reasons. Yet to say the audience doesn't exist is a lie, they exist, & are waiting. It's not a lack of interest, but lack of updates. Simply having some little little area, in Act 3, is breadcrumbs.

For a game with so many skill builds, if you find the most enjoyment out of the game, by just " collecting gear ", than talking about your builds on forums, because theirs no town worth comparing, than that's your style. I find the best enjoyment out of reworking the skill based combat verse other players. & No I don't want to just flag myself red & gank players, I want 10vs10 or 20vs20 maps designed for team pvp. Maps the size of any PVE map. Than after that a bigger town & areas outside the town to hangout too. No not a MMO's size, but a few freaking maps, where were not stuck in town with 10 people who are standing around their stash, only. Would be nice.

As for the Lost Ark's Video I posted, that's Psheer's channel, he left WoW, so he's trying every game that has pvp content out there. So if this game had it better, he'd be playing this game. So theirs also a audience, that's not going to express themselves in this thread, yet exist. & They will write forum posts about the next new pvp update. WoW is still in exodus afterall, more reason to advertise for both crowds. To say they don't have a voice, because their not playing yet, is baloney. Also many who are playing want this too, this " I think this way so all the PVE'ers do " needs to stop. They don't all share this sentiment. Plus many wanted these updates & just gave up, so I speak for those who gave up asking too. The irony is pvp fighting balances the pve skills, yet you don't care about balance, yet others do. So really I'm on the side of half the PVE'rs or more too. Your on the side of a smaller majority; the side that doesn't want balance between classes & builds for PVE & only wants 1 type of content (meaning lacking pvp or other topics outside of league-talks).

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Exile009 wrote:

PvP was actually one of the first things GGG tried to work on after the games' initial launch. The Version 1.3.0 patch was big on PvP - https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Version_1.3.0

And more work would have been done on it. So why didn't they? Simply because the community made it clear they weren't interested in it. It was a largely unused feature, and plenty of people on the forums/Reddit very clearly told them it had no place in this game. So they didn't bother after that. And that sentiment hasn't changed much over the years. There's maybe a slightly higher portion of the community interested in PvP today, but it still seems to be fairly niche.

Royale came out of an April Fools' joke that was never meant to be a full game feature. Its popularity was heavily based on novelty, but even back then people were complaining about how unbalanced it was (which was understandable, as GGG themselves admitted it'd only got the barest minimum of development). Ever since there's been the occasional request to have it back, which they've now finally acquiesced to, but it was never a major demand.

So why'd they launch Royale again now? Who knows? Maybe as an experiment, to see if they can make their one and only successful (even if just briefly) PvP mode work. Maybe in order to shore up players by having them keep playing the game, even if just for Royale, even later in the league - in order to counteract the launch of Diablo 2 Resurrected (which is coming out during the later part of this league). Maybe just as an employees personal side project.

But whatever the reason, it still doesn't seem like the fundamental reason why this game hasn't developed its PvP much has changed - most of the community doesn't seem to believe in it, or want it. Will it be impossible to balance? Probably. But that's just another reason among many for why it isn't wanted.

What pvp content did they " work on " to tell if people were interested enough or not? The pvp maps or content look like someone spent 1 minute working on them. Their isn't a single pvp npc, & that's just for starters.

Ye Moba's are popular, so saying Royal is semi-popular, makes no different, it'll attract some kids, big deal. Effects the main game, non-existently. So pass. People wouldn't like the PVE if it didn't have 8 years of content & even then PVE'rs complain about the newest patches all day, for hundreds of pages. So.. your saying a PVP'er should be satisfied with 1% of that update effort, in comparison, made many years ago?

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MarloStanfield wrote:

I like football, why is Pro Evolution Soccer a better football game than POE??? GGG should take all their resources away from developing the next couple of leagues so we can play football against people who come to our hideouts. Would be so cool and I bet 99.9% of the players really want this.

I didn't realize football was a feature in most online-rpg games, good analogy there. PVP & Social town updates, are in most Multiplayer-RPG's games, just not ones from the 1990's. So this game has the content of a 1990's game. Or like I said D2's 1 shot imbalances, that were never worked on, but should have been.

P.s. I'd play any type of content, that isn't just end-game pve at this point. People like fishing in this game. Adding more social stuff, I find nice. It spices up the forum topics too, instead of all making them talk about the same features. So saying football, isn't so much a diss in my eyes, even tho I wouldn't technically want football. However I would be down for RP-taverns, hanging out with 100 different people from different guilds, & kicking a cosmetic ball around, sure. Beats just Global chat, anyday.

1 or 2 Maps for outside guild social areas (non-instanced) social fields to hangout, not trapped in town, but 1 portal outside of town / next to towns = a social field (plus making towns bigger too) > is better than instanced WoW-Garrison style POE-hideouts.

If Planetside 2 has the funds to host 300 player mmofps battles with vehicles 24/7 on their servers. Well POE with thousands of more players, should be able to make a town of 100 people or so. Perhaps town split channels like Guild Wars 1 had, which technically wasn't a mmorpg either, but a morpg.

On another note, nobody has talked about Lost Ark still, its a top down, miniature ARPG, with endgame PVE too.

Yet, it has good variations of skills, not just dps spams, more knockdowns & stuff. Because of that pvp fine-tweaking, the skill fighting, has more gravity to it, & better combos. > Than POE has. Reason theirs trying to make POE 2, have better spear based attacks, for similar results. The dodge mechanics are constantly being worked on, because of pvp. Which helps PVE entertainment as well.


If that game has a audience for it, than you can't say the ARPG PVP audience doesn't exist, it apparently exists internationally. From USA'ers waiting to ARPG-PVP when that game releases + Russians + Chinese playing it. Tons of people interested for having the best of both worlds, just not a tiny amount of guys replying to this thread.

' Oh that's Lost Ark, POE is different, or I speak for all the POE community, blah blah " No, if one ARPG has the audience, they all do!

P.s. Plus all the retired WoW players waiting for such content, I know Asmongold features this game, to his audience, or Lazy Peon. MMO'ers ARE covering this game, so why not please them, fully? MMO'ers ARE playing this game already, probably most of the playerbase also plays MMO's. I don't have some strict opinion that this game has to be modeled after Diablo 2 strictly. For the next 4 years of updates.

Also news flash, Diablo 2's multiplayer was only fun, because WoW wasn't released yet! Most barely played a MMO before WoW, that's why Diablo 2's multiplayer was sufficeable. It's part of the reason Diablo 3 failed.

They have the funds, just some whiney PVE'er community speedbumps to get through, people who really should be playing single player console games & never touch the PC market again. " PVE only PC game " what a joke, bringing dishonor to the entire PC game empire. May as well be suggesting Playstation Final Fantasy offline games, those also have " end-game gear or builds " - that you can go on forums to write / compare. No thanks.

In your other thread, you were the only person who mentioned PvP except for 1 other poster who said "Matchmaking"

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PrairieTutanka wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

PvP was actually one of the first things GGG tried to work on after the games' initial launch. The Version 1.3.0 patch was big on PvP - https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Version_1.3.0

And more work would have been done on it. So why didn't they? Simply because the community made it clear they weren't interested in it. It was a largely unused feature, and plenty of people on the forums/Reddit very clearly told them it had no place in this game. So they didn't bother after that. And that sentiment hasn't changed much over the years. There's maybe a slightly higher portion of the community interested in PvP today, but it still seems to be fairly niche.

Royale came out of an April Fools' joke that was never meant to be a full game feature. Its popularity was heavily based on novelty, but even back then people were complaining about how unbalanced it was (which was understandable, as GGG themselves admitted it'd only got the barest minimum of development). Ever since there's been the occasional request to have it back, which they've now finally acquiesced to, but it was never a major demand.

So why'd they launch Royale again now? Who knows? Maybe as an experiment, to see if they can make their one and only successful (even if just briefly) PvP mode work. Maybe in order to shore up players by having them keep playing the game, even if just for Royale, even later in the league - in order to counteract the launch of Diablo 2 Resurrected (which is coming out during the later part of this league). Maybe just as an employees personal side project.

But whatever the reason, it still doesn't seem like the fundamental reason why this game hasn't developed its PvP much has changed - most of the community doesn't seem to believe in it, or want it. Will it be impossible to balance? Probably. But that's just another reason among many for why it isn't wanted.

Their isn't a single pvp npc, & that's just for starters.

You obviously didn't read the link I gave you. There WAS a PvP NPC. He was removed (and relocated to the Syndicate) because no one liked or used him.

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PrairieTutanka wrote:

So.. your saying a PVP'er should be satisfied with 1% of that update effort, in comparison, made many years ago?

No, I'm trying to explain to you WHY there was no further effort - because the community made it clear they weren't interested in it. And judging by the responses to your thread here, they still aren't.

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PrairieTutanka wrote:

People wouldn't like the PVE if it didn't have 8 years of content

People liked the PvE in this game enough for it to grow on the basis of that for all those 8 years. PvE is what carried this game even before PvP was added, even before the game formally launched! This was a PvE game even in 2013 (and earlier), and it attracted players based on that even back then. Then when they added PvP, not only did it make no impact, but people actively told them off for devoting their development time to it. Hence it makes sense that they chose to once again focus on the PvE instead, as that's what the games' growth was based on, and has continued to be based on.

4 of you isn't still much of a poll. Especially since your the ones writing about league patches all day & their shortcomings. Which generically is what most threads are about.

I already proved ARPG-PVP has a market audience. Tons of people played War of Emperium for Ragnarok Online & tons of people play Lost Ark's pvp. Enough said on this whole " audience " debate.

That's also not mentioning all the WoW exiles who are hopping different multiplayer pc games rightnow seeking a decent pvp game, be it ARPG or MMORPG, they don't give a hoot, they just want the action & multiplayer facets of pvp, toward a rpg game.

NPC or not, the pvp still hasn't been worked on enough. To get a fair assessment of " interests " to begin with. The same goes for Final Fantasy, they have npc's too. Yet their design of pvp is so out of touch with the main game / they made it a side hobby. That they use that to justify why people aren't interested. However when a new patch for a new pvp mode, connected to the main game, gets updated soon. Which FF online is giving them a capture the flag mode. You believe nobody is going to play it? People are.

I really don't care if PVE andies aren't interested in pvp, it's no suprise, look at the forum posts, all about end-game pve. So it's simply a matter of trends, or the fact that those that wanted it gave up (also partly due to pve andies). I honestly could care less what the numbers are, or if any of you are interested in it, nor am I leaving for a non-existent rpg you can't even recommend for rpg-pvp. Even if you did recommend - said game - I would still have more wisdom on the total overall overview of pvp content toward all rpg games on the pc market rightnow. So it wouldn't be schooling me on anything.

If you like PVE, just simply leave this thread & go to the countless other threads that talk about your generic precious leagues. Coming into this thread to simply say afew of your aren't interested in it, is a lame approach. Which I honestly find all your late-game PVE threads, unamusing at this point. I also find auto-bombers un-amusing, comparing gear or builds with no town to show them off, meh. Or having dps damage builds that have huge dps gaps, verses other builds. While also not basing skill-updates on 1vs1 duels, meaning more knockdowns, upgraded dodge mechanics, more reasons to skill rotate, or having more skill that do different effects other than mostly dps wave spamming. Which POE 2 is trying to do, somewhat, but not good enough apparently, till pvp group play gets more criticism + tweaking. Than aton of re-balancing based on range verse melee builds.

If they added a Ragnarok Online style War of Emperium, guild vs guild vs guild battlefield with castles to hold. It would gain traction the same way. Ragnarok had up to 150 people guild vs guild battles. Earlier I mentioned Dragon's Nest Mobile. That game is a ARPG too (dead now due to p2w). Yet Dragon's Nest people are doing guild vs guild vs guild tournaments on the first day of release, for territories. Plus 1vs1 arenas, with tournament ranks / prizes. While having quick dodging roll gameplay / 3d fast paced 1vs1'ing.

So your saying some mobile game should outshine a PC fully developed game, that's existed for 8 years?? Yes that's what your saying, so just leave the thread.. If that's what your implying. That a mobile phone game should have both worlds of content, tho POE shouldn't. I'd rather not debate with someone who believes a mobile phone game should be more advanced, in that aspect.

I just mentioned 3 ARPG games, or ARPG enough games, that have the audience for ARPG-PVP. That hold the audience as well. So wither POE has figured out how to attract / hold that crowd of people, has nothing to do with anyone posting rightnow. Tho the audience 1000% exists, regardless of who's been posting the same generic pve posts on this general forum for ages now. The audience exists in this game & outside of it. Tho Royal mode is a distraction, from real progress.

Plus all the mmo'ers who have not a decent multiplayer pvp rpg game to play, or the ones who won't have the pc the run New World. Nor believe Final Fantasy's pvp is worth it. Or are bored of Guild Wars 2 pvp. Or overplayed Planetside 2's pvp. Or don't want to play a P2W game. Thus that leave this game & this game only! For another year or so, till Ashes of Creation. & even then who knows. That's what I want updated on this thread I made, toward a game I play, that I invest my time into, regardless of opinion of pve andies who never made a poll. & Even if made a poll PVE andies that obviously have been toxic against the pvper audience for years now. Good for you, you have the best PVE build, I don't really care, was it tested in a skillful test of trial by combat, or just some AI? To each their own I guess, I'd rather have both, more advanced boss mechanics, plus more advanced reasons to pvp & hold that audience. Which if PVE'rs have had a salty mood toward the PVP audience, that also reflects the interest levels or lack of discussion on more unique topics.

Lastly, I don't just have PVPers on my side, I also have all the PVE'rs who want better balance, for the bottom half of the skills, that don't support the 1% as much. Which is the basics of what pvp does, for skill balance. So I'm technically on team PVE balance as well. Anyone who opposes pvp updates, is against PVE balance. Even if they have to scale the hp pools with the damage outputs. Still, trying to balance PVE skills between classes, without PVP skill balance, won't ever be as fulfilling or as effective, at the end of the day.

Other than that, I'd vote for randomized skill trees. By turning each passive node into a rarity, rarer nodes on the outside of the tree's radius, then mixed up & randomized. With a creation alt limit of 3 or 4 chars per day.

You are still trying to compare PoE to something it never meant to be. Its not MMO, FPS, MOBA or anything you use as example. Its online ARPG and nothing more. Poeple here play for pve. You have great example in form od royale now. Its more polished and balanced then endgame pvp will ever hope to be and players still dont want to play it to a point that it has matchmaking problems. Forced inclusivity never did any good to any game.


Also its not just us 4, you dont have even 1 supporter in this thread do where is yours "huge audience"?

I mentioned 3 ARPG's with PVP + PVE in them. Which all 3 did fine & had high pvp + pve player numbers. So saying that doesn't work out, is also wrong. War of Emperium was popular for IRO. Lost Ark's pvp is popular. & Dragon's Nest tournament duels or guild vs guild was popular.

I never said I wanted it to be a Moba, you are the one that initially talked about Mobas, via League of Legends. I don't like Royal, I'm against Mobas. MMOFPS mentioning is only to say that a game should update itself to be based on skill, before or more importantly than item progression. Item progression should be #2 reason to play, strategy should be #1. Items should never be #1, or else the game becomes a I-Win-Button-Masher. Regardless of if it was originally meant to be. That is all subject to change, based on the notion of ideas in general.

To say a game has to stick to a format, just because it has been, doesn't mean anything. In this case the format is, copying Diablo 2. Bout it.

If they can copy one game, they can copy another, especially if both examples are ARPG's. That's like saying Last Epoch, shouldn't add multiplayer mode, because as of right now, they don't have it. So it was initially intended to be single player game, but alas they are heading to be a multiplayer game. The same concept is no different, from turning this game into a mmo. It's just a matter of ethics, progression, & updates. Not a matter of, " what they are use to doing ".

I'm assuming the audience got complained at, by afew try-hand PVE forum nerds, that any PVP'er has to write a THESIS of examples on, just to prove this game needs pvp. Theirs plenty of pvpers in general, to say otherwise is silly. Tho yes the topic has been swept under the rug, for all the wrong reasons, that's why I'm here. To say pvpers don't exist or that pvpers avoid this game, is wrong. It just happens to have not enough updates to bring them to this forum post to begin with. Thus update it.

P.s. WoW streamers like Preach, are playing POE since a week ago, WoW players in general, like pvp. Simple as that. Not all of them tho half of them do or more. Pshero who was playing Lost Ark's Arena pvp in that link I posted. He would try this game if it had pvp, as he just left WoW too. Then repeat that example, for about thousands of more people. Than hundreds more once mmorpg.com makes a forum post on the new POE pvp updates, ect. Or Reddit. Than more pvp players for every youtube list, that mentions new morpg games with pvp in them for September 2021 or onward (ect.) It's not like any of us mmorpg pvpers are playing Final Fantasy for pvp, which is the top mmorpg trend right now, so their is a demand.

I also don't see why anyone wouldn't want to test all these fun skill builds dueling eachother, why have so many skills, without getting to test them on real players? With our main chracters, not some bogus side royal char. Maybe than POE will actually has reasons to have a healer class 1day too.

Those games are mmo first, they are so vastly different that its stupid to even mention them.

Edit: Honestly im done with you, you cant comprehend that its stupid idea to put pvp in a game where player skill is irrelevant because everything revolves around gear, not even build itself. 5 mirror gear will alwys win against 1 ex gear. You would have to change the core of the game for any other outcome.