Leagues dumping into standard is unhealthy for leagues

In reality, the league economies are never fresh because they are perpetually linked to Standard. The ties between the two become stronger as a league progresses.

Standard creates this weird pseudo-market that revolves around the League and Standard balancing out near leagues end.

Most currencies become very close in ratio as the league matures, but not always due to necessity or usage. It is simply players gobbling up currency until it is no longer profitable to do so. I do this myself quite often. If I am about to quit I purchase big stacks of currency or items that are only going to go up in value when they go to Standard.

If I am playing near the end of a league I simply buy currency or items that are undervalued (in relation to Standard) until the profit-margin normalizes.

(I went to poe.ninja to get some hard numbers, did they remove the past league historical data?)
I have acquired a few mirrors over the years (all traded) and the price has just gotten bat-shit crazy with inflation. In incursion I think I paid 150ex for a mirror, moving up to metamorph I think I picked one up for around 250 and now they are 750ex+? ((wait, looks like 900ex+ now))

This is, of course, at leagues end. I am certain that the league price has always ended near the Standard price.. and because the Standard price is so high, mirror chasing just gets ridiculous. No doubt, more exalts are banged out (well maybe not after the beast/fracture nerf) these days but nowhere near that rate. Imagine farming/trading 150ex for a mid-league mirror vs 500ex.

Items that used to be worth a mirror can't, because they aren't actually worth more than 700ex anymore.

I use the mirror as an example, because for some, it is the ultimate chase item, but ALL currencies and items suffer the fate of the mirror.

Hardcore League is in an even much worse state due to the nature of ripping an item over to Standard. New league stuff or overly cheap currency/items? Buy items, place on level 2 character, then rip. I do this when I play Hardcore league (every few leagues when I want to live a little). And this has been going on for years. My first year in POE was in HC and old players then taught me how to carry shit over to make a buck.

I know that most players are attached to the idea of always having their character around. It makes them feel all warm and tingly inside that when the league ends they still have their stuff. (I delete most of my chars, except for testing purposes)

Get over that shit. If you want to play in Standard, that's fine. It is a wonderful addition to the game, but while it exists linked to leagues, it is never going to be a fresh economy.

Everything you say is true but what do you propose instead? Voided leagues?

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate. Why did you buy those mirrors in the first place?

I like bringing my league stuff to Standard. Eventually I have a wide assortment of gear to experiment with.

While I won't say I don't trade, "the economy" in Standard has very little to do with what I do in league. Just because you arbitrage the 2 economies, you consider them linked in a way that those of us just playing the game and improving our characters really don't.

This is comparable to a junkie arguing to exterminate opium poppies as a species. It's a fringe problem of your own making, and in the cases of both League-to-Standard and opium poppies there are perfectly non-problematic reasons for their continued existence to continue to benefit the rest of us.

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Reinhart wrote:

Everything you say is true but what do you propose instead? Voided leagues?

Allow me to play Devil's Advocate. Why did you buy those mirrors in the first place?

That is one option, yes. We don't necessarily need to call them void leagues; I think just 'league' is fine.

Or the character (soul) could get transferred but all their worldly possessions are unable to accompany them through the ethereal plane.. (or some shit like that).

Mirrors? Just a chase item for me (like some people and their HH). It's never a bad purchase and the value, especially because of Standard, ensures that whenever I resell it a few days/weeks later im making huge profit while not even playing. It is VERY funny to go on vacation and come back a week later only to have made 100ex+ without playing (some people don't that in their league farming). There are, of course, much better ways to make $$ if that is your goal, but that sure isn't a bad one if you can afford it.

I don't want this post to be just about the mirror though; all currencies are affected.

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SavageGrace wrote:

I like bringing my league stuff to Standard. Eventually I have a wide assortment of gear to experiment with.

Terrible argument and probably the last shitpost I will respond to.

Because YOU like bringing your stuff to Standard my argument is invalid? What was posted happens, whether I do it or not. There is nothing "fringe" about it (as you say).

And come on with the opium analogy, you already made yourself look bad enough.

As an SSF player, if I wasn't able to bring all my league stuff with me on STD, I wouldn't possibly play leagues at all.

What is the point of going into league, if everything you found would be destroyed after 3 months?

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bㄴaㄷkㅁut wrote:

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SavageGrace wrote:

I like bringing my league stuff to Standard. Eventually I have a wide assortment of gear to experiment with.

Terrible argument and probably the last shitpost I will respond to.

Because YOU like bringing your stuff to Standard my argument is invalid? What was posted happens, whether I do it or not. There is nothing "fringe" about it (as you say).

And come on with the opium analogy, you already made yourself look bad enough.

I like it too. Thousands of players do. Players I know personally who never actually play Standard still like to see their stuff there, including legacy stuff.

I play both Standard and Leagues - I start new characters in league, but I love to go back and tweak them in Standard several leagues later. I didn’t sign up for a game with voided leagues.

The main point I’d like to make is that league economies simply aren’t very important once the league is getting close to its end - neither to GGG nor most players. Therefore, while you accurately identify a link between the economies that starts to manifest in the last few weeks of each league, I’m having trouble figuring out why it’s a problem or what bad outcomes it causes. Certainly none worth fundamentally changing how leagues work.

I’d also posit that voided leagues would see their economies grind to a total halt near their end. GGG wants you to chase that mirror in the last week; you’d never bother in a voided league. The profit you make from it is your reward for playing the game more. I’d say the system is working as intended.

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demon9675 wrote:

Therefore, while you accurately identify a link between the economies that starts to manifest in the last few weeks of each league

It starts earlier than that, gaining momentum as the league progresses. From the very beginning it is tainted.

I understand how you feel. You, like many other players, have a hard time letting go of something. Even if you would never log into a character again, it feels good, knowing that its there, right?


Another solution I offer up, your character transfers with only the gear they are wearing. (in addition to the other two suggestions I made)

What do you really think POE2 is about? Probably a way to start with a clean slate and vaporize the entirety of items in Standard in one go.

After that Standard will continue to exist in some form.

Don't think "unhealthy" is the right term. The alternative is to have a market where everything loses all value at the end. That wouldn't be a very accurate model of an economy either.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Don't think "unhealthy" is the right term. The alternative is to have a market where everything loses all value at the end. That wouldn't be a very accurate model of an economy either.

The third alternative I proposed was that you get to take the gear you are wearing with you and that's it.

Put your currency to use and either make gear or buy items. You can still remember/keep your character without bringing over a dragon's horde of other treasure.

It isn't OK for a any league to be so strongly affected by an outside influence.

Why do people think its OK for a three month league to suck for 2 out of 3 months.. (hell, why should even 1 month suck?)