One year of COVID, a reflection.

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The_Impeacher wrote:

The greatest concern at the moment is the even more highly contagious and deadly Delta variant. What the anti-vaccine [Removed by Support] people don't understand is that if all people get vaccinated, the thing will die out. The longer people refuse to let go of the delusional conspiracy theories, the longer coronavirus will continue on, morphing into even more dangerous variants.

Vaccination is voluntary. I don't expect everyone to do so. People shouldn't promote unrealistic goals and I expect herd immunity could take a while. Nearly 40% of the population in US has now gotten at least one dose of a vaccine, that isn't so bad compared to many countries in the rest of the world. There is a huge problem with vaccine supply, 75% of the vaccines have gone to only 10 countries globally.

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The_Impeacher wrote:

Herd immunity is unattainable as long as variants continue to evolve. Until more people are vaccinated globally, distancing, masking and other health recommendations must be followed to stop the spread. In some places, lockdowns will still be necessary.

Some places will never reach vaccination herd immunity required with lack of vaccines, profound poverty and poor healthcare. Less restrictive future lockdowns to resume economic activities will be likely as covid-19 fatigue set in. Covid 19 pandemic will probably end in certain region probably in more advance developed countries but rages on in other part of the world in underdeveloped countries.

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Maxxx17 wrote:

As negative as I am about vaccinations. I had to get two vaccines recently. All because they did the most horrible quarantine. And I can't get anywhere. And I have to travel all the time for work. It's the only way I travel to cities and countries. You call this "unforced" vaccination? Seriously? Very funny to be honest... Well, I'm glad they let me travel around cities at all. I couldn't do it without a job. I'm giving it all up. Even create maps of the trip in advance for convenience. I'm a so-called map creator. I know a little about programming, so it was no problem. It's a pity I now have to get vaccinated regularly.

It is voluntary, but it is frowned upon to refuse to vaccinate and not help to do your part to contain the spread. It is only fair to put travel restrictions for those who refuse to vaccinate because you endanger other people and put people at risk. Voluntary implies full consciousness of the nature of one's act and its intended consequences, and also the responsibilities, blame, fault or wrong... of your actions. You are free but not free without consequences ... You are free to choose, but you are not free to decide the consequences of your decisions. Freedom does not come without a price. In any choice we make, there are consequences.

+1 on rights and responsibilities. John Locke said it better. "We give up some of our freedoms to gain legally binding rights in a greater society" or something along those lines.

Not only that, but at this point, if you're not vaccinated, I'm potentially more dangerous to you than you are to me. I've gotten my shots and if I catch it, I'm likely to recover without issues; but I could pass it to you and then you could be one of the unlucky ones who appear young and healthy but die anyway. Or you might become permanently and profoundly disabled and a burden on your family or society.

now I don't know you, but if someone told me something I failed to do yesterday killed or sickened another person because I chose to ignore it, I'd be gutted. Now imagine if it wasn't just one other person, but 5-8 other people depending on who else in your family you talked to that day. Your children, your spouse? Your parents or grandparents? How could I know who would catch it?

By stepping up and doing your part, you're taking a load off my conscience, along with all the other benefits of having 600% less chance of dying should you catch it.

The economy doesn't exist without healthy people to participate in it, in whatever ways they can. Worry about the stocks and quarterly targets later. Find a way to generate value with what you have.

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The_Impeacher wrote:

as long as variants continue to evolve.

It's a virus, and it has and will continue to mutate.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-info.html#anchor_1632154493691

I don't have a link to the archived stories initially published, but when the first cases were detected in the United States, the Seattle Flu Study had been collecting influenza swabs from thousands of people for months. The swab and preservative used are the same ones we use for "nasal" Covid PCR tests, which meant the Seattle Flu Study was able to check for Covid among those tests.

What they found was evidence that there were almost certainly six variants in the Unites States at the time, and when we thought we had a half dozen cases, there were likely a few thousand. (They estimated 24 per 10,000 population - out of 2 million people in the area)

I am rather disappointed that with all the people getting vaccinations and the known variation in the disease, we aren't seeing the vaccine companies offer updated booster shots (where they try to cover "variants of concern. With the annual flu shots, for instance, they try to update them every year for the four most prominent/dangerous strains. It's a best educated guess effort, but at least they try.

IMO, we should be seeing some sort of effort towards this, and if they are working on it already, they should be discussing it to give people more confidence in what they are working on. Transparency and honesty go a very long way in helping persuade people to making good decisions about their medical care. The medical industry doesn't always have the answers, but letting people know what we know, what we don't know and what we hope to achieve helps alleviate some of the anxiety, so that people can enjoy their best life and minimize the disruptions caused by a potential illness.


(The Seattle Flu study was forced to drop their analysis of Covid patterns among the early collections, because the participants had only agreed to be tested for influenza, and not for Covid-19, which wasn't known to exist when the first samples were collected)

Story about the initial efforts of Seattle Flu Study (they started in Jan 2019)
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/1st-of-its-kind-seattle-flu-study-aims-to-stop-flu-before-it-becomes-pandemic/912665236/
or https://archive.md/W66aJ

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crunkatog wrote:

+1 on rights and responsibilities. John Locke said it better. "We give up some of our freedoms to gain legally binding rights in a greater society" or something along those lines.

Not only that, but at this point, if you're not vaccinated, I'm potentially more dangerous to you than you are to me. I've gotten my shots and if I catch it, I'm likely to recover without issues; but I could pass it to you and then you could be one of the unlucky ones who appear young and healthy but die anyway. Or you might become permanently and profoundly disabled and a burden on your family or society.

now I don't know you, but if someone told me something I failed to do yesterday killed or sickened another person because I chose to ignore it, I'd be gutted. Now imagine if it wasn't just one other person, but 5-8 other people depending on who else in your family you talked to that day. Your children, your spouse? Your parents or grandparents? How could I know who would catch it?

By stepping up and doing your part, you're taking a load off my conscience, along with all the other benefits of having 600% less chance of dying should you catch it.

The economy doesn't exist without healthy people to participate in it, in whatever ways they can. Worry about the stocks and quarterly targets later. Find a way to generate value with what you have.

You can still get covid and transmit it with all the shots, Vacc is for high risk people so they dont die if they get it.

I suspect most who are promoting it are in the high risk catagory.

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Chadwixx wrote:

You can still get covid and transmit it with all the shots

This is known. To the best of working medical knowledge on the subject, people who are vaccinated suffer less severe symptoms than they would be expected to if they weren't vaccinated. If their respiratory symptoms aren't as severe, the viral payload they have to potentially infect others is lower.

That doesn't mean this is 100% true, it is just the best we understand right now. As someone who has had hundreds of Covid patients, I have seen first hand how differently the disease can impact people. Medicine is not a one size fits all practice.

There is no crystal ball on this disease, and we don't have a good ethical way of sorting people into experimental groups to test out various options. The best we can do right now, is meta analysis of data that we have collected. The number of confounding variables is staggering.

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Chadwixx wrote:

Vacc is for high risk people so they dont die if they get it.

I've had low risk patients (one or no comorbidities)who were very young and died from Covid. I've had patients in their 80's with several comorbidities who didn't need to be hospitalized, and were sent home with a few medications for symptoms. Unpredictable. That's how I would surmise Covid.

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Chadwixx wrote:

I suspect most who are promoting it are in the high risk catagory.

That is an assumption. Take the sheer number of people who are promoting vaccines and then look at the statistical data for how many people are possibly in high risk categories. There aren't enough people in the high risk categories for what we are seeing in public opinion supporting it.

All that said, I think the polarization of this disease any form is counterproductive to what governments and the medical field are trying to accomplish. Trust needs to be mutual when someone's health and/or life are at stake.

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DalaiLama wrote:

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Chadwixx wrote:

You can still get covid and transmit it with all the shots

This is known.

it is now (and still not by many). some time last year when i first posted this somewhere on this very forum i was screamed at by multiple people as fake news, conspiracy theorist, blah blah blah


i have a joke for you all
Whats the difference between conspiracy theory and the truth?

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xMustard wrote:

it is now (and still not by many). some time last year when i first posted this somewhere on this very forum i was screamed at by multiple people as fake news, conspiracy theorist, blah blah blah

So what is your point?

And Why don't we know? I Do, silly.


Immunity ≠ immune
Immunity > nothing

Vaccinated people are less likely to have the coronavirus, in turn less likely to infect others. This is also known. Don't treat it like an afterthought.

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awesome999 wrote:

Vaccinated people are less likely to have the coronavirus, in turn less likely to infect others. This is also known. Don't treat it like an afterthought.

This is incorrect, the vaccine does nothing to prevent you from getting it. They lied about the mask and the vaccine initially.

I shouldnt say lie because that shows intent. But they got both wrong, probably why we usually research drugs before giving to the public