[3.17] The Frozen Garden - Elementalist Permafreeze Arc Mines (3.17 partial, recommend self cast)

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Silenc42 wrote:

First of all, very cool idea and a nice guide. Thank you!
I will try this out, since my current sabo is not 100% to my liking.

I have a question though. I don't understand why the guide suggests this:

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CantripN wrote:

Stats you need to prioritize on gear:
...
Abyssal Jewel:
Any flat cold/fire/phys to spells so you can Shock/Chill! (otherwise you don't Shock/Chill at all due to Three Dragons)
Flat Lightning Damage to Spells

flat cold/fire/phys to spells, I get. But wouldn't flat lightning mess up the Elemental Equilibrium? Or do these not count for the flame golem, despite him being a spell and using spells?

Also why would phys to spells allow me to shock or chill?

All damage (except lightning) will be able to shock because of Shaper of Storms ("Your Hits always Shock", "All Damage with Hits can Shock").

Chill comes from cold damage + crit + no-damaging ailment effect stacking.

Adding lightning damage to spells will give it to Flame Golem, at least on the in-game tooltip, but that may only be for his attacks, which I dont even think he attacks, but only using spells. Not 100% sure on that, also I'm not OP so maybe he can chime in on it.

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Silenc42 wrote:

First of all, very cool idea and a nice guide. Thank you!
I will try this out, since my current sabo is not 100% to my liking.

I have a question though. I don't understand why the guide suggests this:

"

CantripN wrote:

Stats you need to prioritize on gear:
...
Abyssal Jewel:
Any flat cold/fire/phys to spells so you can Shock/Chill! (otherwise you don't Shock/Chill at all due to Three Dragons)
Flat Lightning Damage to Spells

flat cold/fire/phys to spells, I get. But wouldn't flat lightning mess up the Elemental Equilibrium? Or do these not count for the flame golem, despite him being a spell and using spells?

Also why would phys to spells allow me to shock or chill?

You do not have EE yourself, so no.

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foojin wrote:

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Silenc42 wrote:

First of all, very cool idea and a nice guide. Thank you!
I will try this out, since my current sabo is not 100% to my liking.

I have a question though. I don't understand why the guide suggests this:

"

CantripN wrote:

Stats you need to prioritize on gear:
...
Abyssal Jewel:
Any flat cold/fire/phys to spells so you can Shock/Chill! (otherwise you don't Shock/Chill at all due to Three Dragons)
Flat Lightning Damage to Spells

flat cold/fire/phys to spells, I get. But wouldn't flat lightning mess up the Elemental Equilibrium? Or do these not count for the flame golem, despite him being a spell and using spells?

Also why would phys to spells allow me to shock or chill?

You do not have EE yourself, so no.

He clearly knows that, he is talking about his golem.

To be 100% clear, flat damage to spells does nothing AT ALL for the Golem. That's why it works and is fine.

The reason you're seeing lightning damage on his tooltip is Wrath, and that's a visual bug. The Golems do deal some Lightning Damage with their attacks because of it, but almost all (or all?) of what the Flame Golem does is Spells, and those are 100% Fire. This is why Ice Golem can't be used, he's an Attacker, and would fuck up on the EE with Wrath up.

As for Shock, ALL DAMAGE (other than Lightning) can Shock. Cold/Fire/Phys/Chaos/Butterflies. And you Chill anything you Shock because of Cold Conduction on your Medium Cluster Jewel, you are technically unable to Chill with actual damage otherwise or using Chilled Ground (you lose the ability to Chill with Cold from Three Dragons, and you don't get it for Lightning, only the ability to Freeze).

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CantripN wrote:

To be 100% clear, flat damage to spells does nothing AT ALL for the Golem. That's why it works and is fine.

The reason you're seeing lightning damage on his tooltip is Wrath, and that's a visual bug. The Golems do deal some Lightning Damage with their attacks because of it, but almost all (or all?) of what the Flame Golem does is Spells, and those are 100% Fire. This is why Ice Golem can't be used, he's an Attacker, and would fuck up on the EE with Wrath up.

Tooltip shows Flame Golem does lightning damage despite not having Wrath up. But if it's only for his attacks and he only uses spells 99% of the time, then it doesn't matter I guess. But just to be sure I have just gone for fire/cold damage.

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CrazylikE wrote:

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CantripN wrote:

To be 100% clear, flat damage to spells does nothing AT ALL for the Golem. That's why it works and is fine.

The reason you're seeing lightning damage on his tooltip is Wrath, and that's a visual bug. The Golems do deal some Lightning Damage with their attacks because of it, but almost all (or all?) of what the Flame Golem does is Spells, and those are 100% Fire. This is why Ice Golem can't be used, he's an Attacker, and would fuck up on the EE with Wrath up.

Tooltip shows Flame Golem does lightning damage despite not having Wrath up. But if it's only for his attacks and he only uses spells 99% of the time, then it doesn't matter I guess. But just to be sure I have just gone for fire/cold damage.

Yeah, jewels also do that, but that's just a visual, again. 100% doesn't affect his actual dps, you can test in pob :)

Minion builds would love it if you could stack damage that way, but you have to use Jewels with "Minions deal X-Y Fire Damage with Attacks". So don't be afraid to stack Flat Lightning, it's a lot of damage.

BTW, with your setup, I'd use Empower 3/4 instead of Detonate Mines. It adds nice things to your Golems and you, and they become way more tanky.

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CantripN wrote:

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CrazylikE wrote:

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CantripN wrote:

To be 100% clear, flat damage to spells does nothing AT ALL for the Golem. That's why it works and is fine.

The reason you're seeing lightning damage on his tooltip is Wrath, and that's a visual bug. The Golems do deal some Lightning Damage with their attacks because of it, but almost all (or all?) of what the Flame Golem does is Spells, and those are 100% Fire. This is why Ice Golem can't be used, he's an Attacker, and would fuck up on the EE with Wrath up.

Tooltip shows Flame Golem does lightning damage despite not having Wrath up. But if it's only for his attacks and he only uses spells 99% of the time, then it doesn't matter I guess. But just to be sure I have just gone for fire/cold damage.

Yeah, jewels also do that, but that's just a visual, again. 100% doesn't affect his actual dps, you can test in pob :)

Minion builds would love it if you could stack damage that way, but you have to use Jewels with "Minions deal X-Y Fire Damage with Attacks". So don't be afraid to stack Flat Lightning, it's a lot of damage.

Gotcha. I don't have much experience with minions, so that's good to know :) Even though I have played this game for 10 years, there's so many small intricacies its hard to know it all =) Especially when the in-game tooltips are so wrong most of the time.

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CantripN wrote:

BTW, with your setup, I'd use Empower 3/4 instead of Detonate Mines. It adds nice things to your Golems and you, and they become way more tanky.

I guess that's something to consider. I do love detonate mines though. The detonation speed is very noticeable and makes it a lot smoother. That said, I could swap out inc duration for it to make room for Empower. Thanks for the tip.

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CrazylikE wrote:

All damage (except lightning) will be able to shock because of Shaper of Storms ("Your Hits always Shock", "All Damage with Hits can Shock").

Chill comes from cold damage + crit + no-damaging ailment effect stacking.

Adding lightning damage to spells will give it to Flame Golem, at least on the in-game tooltip, but that may only be for his attacks, which I dont even think he attacks, but only using spells. Not 100% sure on that, also I'm not OP so maybe he can chime in on it.

Op already answered but I think I have an explanation of it now:

Golems aren't spells. You use a spell to summon a golem but the golem itself isn't the spell so added damage isn't added to the golem. Also, the damage on the tooltip isn't the golems dmg. that is the damage of the "spell" you cast to summon the golem. But that doesn't hit anything. This damage is the same for all golems and other spells that don't actually deal damage like Arcanist Brand.

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KaseyM21 wrote:

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CrazylikE wrote:

All damage (except lightning) will be able to shock because of Shaper of Storms ("Your Hits always Shock", "All Damage with Hits can Shock").

Chill comes from cold damage + crit + no-damaging ailment effect stacking.

Adding lightning damage to spells will give it to Flame Golem, at least on the in-game tooltip, but that may only be for his attacks, which I dont even think he attacks, but only using spells. Not 100% sure on that, also I'm not OP so maybe he can chime in on it.

Op already answered but I think I have an explanation of it now:

Golems aren't spells. You use a spell to summon a golem but the golem itself isn't the spell so added damage isn't added to the golem. Also, the damage on the tooltip isn't the golems dmg. that is the damage of the "spell" you cast to summon the golem. But that doesn't hit anything. This damage is the same for all golems and other spells that don't actually deal damage like Arcanist Brand.

That makes logical sense to me :)