I've already posted my initial 2c on this, but I've been keeping this change in mind while playing over the last couple weeks.
Since then, As I'm sick of alt spamming my staff to get a T1 mod (maybe 2000 so far) I decided to start a new character that required a lot of expensive gear. I don't have a lot, maybe 15 exalt, and I earned about another 25 along the way. As such, this requires a lot of harvest crafting for add / remove. I've been running mostly Haewark Hamlet and maybe 1 in 10 maps gets a sacred grove. Out of that, I've gotten I think 2 add remove which were not even for the mods I needed. As such, I'm still trying to perfect the gear, not to mention trying to make my jewels have better mods.
This is super slow going and incredibly boring. As such, I just don't want to play. Progress in making my gear better is bad enough as it is. Taking this crafting away (and we all know with the proposed changes it'll be useless) is giving me no incentive to play beyond my usual skill cap. Right now, I'm only pulling about 12M dps and I've yet to kill Maven (I know, right?). I can't get past the final stage. I haven't been able to complete the Breach invitation and I die half the time on the elder / shaper guardian invitations. I NEED a build with like 30M+ dps if you guys put out content like this.
You are very very wrong if you think it'll be useless ...why is everyone so doom and gloom? Its just untrue.
In fact it will still be very OP and still override all other crafting systems in game. Shoulda been deleted but it wasnt only nerfed and here is an example of how OP it remains.
Crusader Elder chest with Explody and +1 gems prefix.
Lock prefix's
Reforge Crit and hope you get both Power charge on crit and crit to attacks.
If not try again.
Doesn't take much to have a very OP very deterministic 4 influenced modded chest, try it yourself at the emulator. Add influence and life/w jun if you didnt get it initially on meld - GG.
For weapons its even better since they are usually not influenced and still get add crits. Spam phys chaos or fossils until you get some good phys rolls then add crits..add IAS and GG.
Rare Jewels which are only 4 prop it's even more powerful.
You will brick some items sure but I bricked them with Full Harvest too trying to remove untagged mods trying for perfect... This was an explody frenzy chest..oh well RNG happens
But by in large I'm afraid harvest will still be the alpha and omega of PoE come next patch and that bores me even if you won't be making perfect stuff like some have.
It'll still be 100x better than anything else and still all-hamlet-all-the-time.
Copied from OP:
Some mods that had overly-deterministic behaviour have been removed. These include all annulment mods (other than the ones that remove a mod that isn't of a specific type before adding one of that type), and all type-specific divine mods.
Crafts that add mods of specific types (like Physical Modifiers, for example) to items can now only be applied to non-influenced items, except for the existing mod that applies an influenced mod to an influenced item.
Last edited by Spurnshadow on Mar 30, 2021, 9:10:16 PM
Last season I played, I had great fun getting a headhunter as a drop from a random delirium encounter before I had even gotten to maps.
What was the chance of this happening? I guess pretty low, right? It felt really fun. So, if we are to essentially remove harvest (which is what nerfing it to the ground accomplishes in practice), lets also remove ancient orbs, beast craft duping, 6x farms, etc, because they make great drops too accessible.
Or just keep harvest... There are solutions for keeping harvest and I mean keeping it as a meaningful form of crafting, like playing with tags or restricting it somehow so we need to use other forms of crafting as well and finish with harvest crafts, or something like that... Don't choose the easy (for you) solution, which is to nerf it to the ground. Understand that for us, casual (20-25h/week) solo players, a semi-deterministic way to improve our gear gives us a sense of progression and keep us playing, because we know that our time invested will lead to some improvement.
Without harvest, we know that our time invested will probably lead to no or little improvement, because we'll choose to spend that currency to buy overpriced gear, crafted by other players, instead of gambling it on a crafting system that usually needs tons of currency to reward you with something that is worth the currency spent. A system that in practice is disappointing to most casual players, because we are not able to gather enough currency to make the huge RNG less of an issue.
Playing for days to gather currency and then trying to craft and losing it all for nothing, because of -close your eyes and exalt slam-, is not fun for the average casual player, on most cases, so after going through that on 1-2 seasons, people are likely to not want to go through that again and choose not to play altogether. It's not like PoE is the only aRPG game out there.
P.S. Finishing my HoT autobomber staff using harvest, with 80% of crafts being my own crafts and not from trading, was a lot more fun than getting Headhunter as a random drop sometime earlier that season and 10x more fun than buying 90% of my gear through trading on previous seasons.
Understand that for us, casual (20-25h/week) solo players, a semi-deterministic way to improve our gear gives us a sense of progression and keep us playing, because we know that our time invested will lead to some improvement.
Without harvest, we know that our time invested will probably lead to no or little improvement
The thing is, it is not profitable for them to make your 20h/week meaningful for you. The goal is to make is as non-meaningful as possible, so you have to spend 20 more at least in the game. If you get little to no improvement you either quit (in that case some new player will replace you fairly quickly, because you have already spent some money) or you log in again, because you want that improvement anyway. So in the end it is win-win for the game. It is sad, it is wrong, but it is the way a lot of online games work.
Playing for days to gather currency and then trying to craft and losing it all for nothing, because of -close your eyes and exalt slam-, is not fun for the average casual player
Might not be fun, but in the end it is the goal here. If you spent days farming currency, and then you lose it all because of RNG crafting, you have to log in again and farm again for days....and the cycle continues. As stated above, a lot of companies don't really care that much about you having "fun", but your time spent online.
I realy hopped that GGG would see reason and revise the changes scheduled for Harvest, buy I guess not, which is simply mind buggling.
So, we have Harvest, deterministic crafting but has layers of RNG with no real issue other than mid range players being able to craft better items, not mirror tier in any case.
But let's see what makes Harvest OP, the fact that you can use TFT to buy any craft you want and craft any gear you want - but that in it self does not make Harvest OP, because crafts are fairly expensive and it can take 100ex+ to craft a mirror tier item. Most of the players don't have that much currency, especially the start of the league.
But let's see who has that kind of currency, and how they make it:
6 WAY BEAST FARM - yep, this the thing where just 1 player has 5 virtual machines on his computer running POE + their own account and farms maps with Einhar (main account kills beasts, rest of the account are AFK at the start of the map), and guess what, instead of getting 4-5 beasts per map, he gets 25-30 beasts/map - easily fixable by requiring all players to be in a certain range of the beast or better yet, only the player that opened the map receives the beast reward, but nop, this is perfectly fine in GGG's opinion.
6 WAY THE FEARED - probably the reason Bottled Faith is like 1.5ex this league, because the same guys that farm beasts with 6 accounts, farm The Feared invitation with 6 accounts, and what do you know, they get 6 times the reward, so, instead of 1 Bottled Faith they get 6, instead of 1 Maven invitation, well.. 6 again. Buy hey, GGG is fine with this, not OP by any means.
ITEM DUPPING - 1 crafted magic item with T1 rolls that gets duplicated over and over again with beasts, OP as hell but again, GGG thiks this is ok, cause it's in the game for a lot of time.
So, this are the guys that are able to craft tons of mirror tier items because they have the currency to buy all the crafts they need,and.. what can I say, thumbs up to them for having the time to take advantage of these broken mechanics.
Harvest is OP because of these broken mechanics, it's a consequence rather than an issue. The root cause of the issue is 6 way farming, item dupping and other mechanics that players take advantage of to make tons of currency and then Harvest craft to their heart desire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEGiuneqnjc
+1 all these things are terribly broken, but it's ok for ggg...
3.13 Was the best league ever!
3.18 Rest in peace my beloved recombinators, I'm gonna miss you...
If you get little to no improvement you either quit (in that case some new player will replace you fairly quickly
What? This assumes that for every person that quits someone new replaces them. There is not a pool of eager players waiting for someone to quit so that they can play.
"Let your smile change the world, but don't let the world change your smile." -unknown
"The Emperor beckons and the world attends." -Izaro
"Shine boldly so that all may find you when the night falls." -Izaro
Beast duping infinite bases for 5ex each and printing mirrors = just fine
This lol.
"Let your smile change the world, but don't let the world change your smile." -unknown
"The Emperor beckons and the world attends." -Izaro
"Shine boldly so that all may find you when the night falls." -Izaro
the players have the ability to show their disapproval on this issue. it would also show GGG that the majority of the player base has an opinion on the current direction of the game.
will this happen? no. sadly it will not. people collectively can get things done if they simply work together. but in a time of greed and selfishness, they will go back to playing and bending to GGG's will because they feel like they "have" to play/see the new content.
don't play or make any purchases for the first month of the new league. this is also the release of poe2 if i'm not mistaken. yes, the streamers and top 1% will continue to play and spend mindlessly but the normal players, which make up most of GGG's income, shouldn't.
a protest if you will that would likely get the attention of those that matter.
a single voice in a crowd cannot be heard but when the whole crowd speaks, that a different story.
poe is going down fast. Diablo 4 and Baldur's Gate 3 have no performance issues. play them instead
hey GGG, this again nerfs the regular players, and keep all the power in the hands of the 1% of players, this is LITTERAL bs, please revise your idea, this is not fun for 99% of your player base....
the players have the ability to show their disapproval on this issue. it would also show GGG that the majority of the player base has an opinion on the current direction of the game.
will this happen? no. sadly it will not. people collectively can get things done if they simply work together. but in a time of greed and selfishness, they will go back to playing and bending to GGG's will because they feel like they "have" to play/see the new content.
don't play or make any purchases for the first month of the new league. this is also the release of poe2 if i'm not mistaken. yes, the streamers and top 1% will continue to play and spend mindlessly but the normal players, which make up most of GGG's income, shouldn't.
a protest if you will that would likely get the attention of those that matter.
a single voice in a crowd cannot be heard but when the whole crowd speaks, that a different story.
