Development Manifesto: Harvest Crafting

Nerfing harvest crafting in this way doesn't look good. It will most likely kill it for average player while making a external community trading forums/tools mandatory to craft a desired item.

Imho better way of handling it would be to make most powerful crafts non tradable.

The idea I came up with is to:

1. It should not be possible to store most powerful crafts (targeted exalt, annul, divine, reforge) in the horticrafting station.

2. Horticrafting station should have a storage space, where you would place items for crafting. The most powerful crafts can only be used on items that ware placed in that storage before the map with sacred groove was opened.

3. the most powerful crafting options can only be used in sacred groove.

That will eliminate trading for crafting options. It will also allow GGG control on how rare these crafts should be. It will ensure that every player will get access to these crafting options at roughly the same pace.

If harvest is nerfed it will be very harmful towards the small console economy and console players will be limited to a hand full of builds if they want to do true endgame stuff. All this on top of the performance issues POE suffers on console.

Also nerf aside, they should do something about the time it takes to to the garden an sort s*it out, it completely breaks the flow of mapping.

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Lvzb3l wrote:

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Kairuto2020 wrote:

they need to introduce new bosses that are 10x stronger than Maven just to keep the players engaged and not zoom-zoom everything.

So whichever group you fall into above, if you can have any solution that makes every single group happy...by all means do share.

Dude, to "zoom-zoom" the actual end game bosses you need a full TFT equip character, which each piece costing between 600-800ex. How many players you think gonna "zoom-zoom"??

I think you misunderstood my paragraph on zoom zoom. It was related to buffing up all other mechanics as good as Harvest. Example, Incursion Apex may drop Headhunter. Syndicate give you top tier upgrades and even those not available in Harvest ( Catarina dropped 6 T1 influenced super item ). Bestiary give you unlimited split and imprint. Deep Delve give you dozens of mirrors. By then, all the power creep will make many just zoom zoom through the game ( if GGG buff all other mechanic til you do not want to touch Harvest )

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EvilPayaso wrote:

Nerfing harvest crafting in this way doesn't look good. It will most likely kill it for average player while making a external community trading forums/tools mandatory to craft a desired item.

Imho better way of handling it would be to make most powerful crafts non tradable.

The idea I came up with is to:

1. It should not be possible to store most powerful crafts (targeted exalt, annul, divine, reforge) in the horticrafting station.

2. Horticrafting station should have a storage space, where you would place items for crafting. The most powerful crafts can only be used on items that ware placed in that storage before the map with sacred groove was opened.

3. the most powerful crafting options can only be used in sacred groove.

That will eliminate trading for crafting options. It will also allow GGG control on how rare these crafts should be. It will ensure that every player will get access to these crafting options at roughly the same pace.

AGREE!

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Kairuto2020 wrote:

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Lvzb3l wrote:

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Kairuto2020 wrote:

they need to introduce new bosses that are 10x stronger than Maven just to keep the players engaged and not zoom-zoom everything.

So whichever group you fall into above, if you can have any solution that makes every single group happy...by all means do share.

Dude, to "zoom-zoom" the actual end game bosses you need a full TFT equip character, which each piece costing between 600-800ex. How many players you think gonna "zoom-zoom"??

I think you misunderstood my paragraph on zoom zoom. It was related to buffing up all other mechanics as good as Harvest. Example, Incursion Apex may drop Headhunter. Syndicate give you top tier upgrades and even those not available in Harvest ( Catarina dropped 6 T1 influenced super item ). Bestiary give you unlimited split and imprint. Deep Delve give you dozens of mirrors. By then, all the power creep will make many just zoom zoom through the game ( if GGG buff all other mechanic til you do not want to touch Harvest )

I wouldn't go to an extreme that you presented, but if you think about it it does make sense in a certain way.

Let me elaborate.

in ARPG no only the "end goal" is the goal but the journey is the goal as well. We have two progression curves the vertical and horizontal.

Vertical are new bosses and everything that goes on top. Horizontal are previous leagues and content related with them.

This expansion made a good step in the way of making progress more enjoyable by target farming specific content that you like, and that in itself is already good.

But a lot of content gets neglected anyway because it doesn't give any meaningful change to something that was already seen so many times.

I know it might be complicated and not worthy for the devs to reiterate on the leagues they already did, but I don't think that is entirely true.

Think about some possibilities.
1. Add an endgame boss to Metamorph which does give some good drops.
2. Add an endgame boss to Blight which gives some good drops.
3. Add new chase uniques, that are worth using like Badge or HH, with a lot of variety.

This game has over 1000 uniques but how many are really used? No one thinks this makes the game more complex but just bloated. And why introduce uniques that are all worthless anyway (aka. Harvest unique Oshabi drops).

But to the problem at hand with the Harvest.
Wouldn't it be that bad to just add the harvest crafts to different bosses across the whole game? Like:
1. Add/Remove chaos drops from UE, Remove chaos drops from Elder/Shaper
2. Add/Remove fire from Enslaver
3. Add/Remove defence from Minotaur

Some synth crafts from synth bosses.

And maybe give the normal map bosses the lower ilvl drops of those crafts as well where the top ones being ilvl 83 ones.

Make the whole process engaging and not just forcing you to run 1500 atolls to try to get this one thing etc.

And trading crafts? Wasn't it the GGG that said that everything in the game should be tradable within the game? Why back on that now? Just because some people have some crafts that GGG thinks are too powerful? so what, it's just a 3 month league, no one cares. And in Standard those items would cost a mirror and like 5 - 10 mirrors fee, so who cares as well. If the inconvenience of trading through TFT is going to stay just make the crafts tradable in the first place as orbs or like in case of beasts.

From the psychology standpoint people aren't engaged because they want to get this big win at the end. Only gamblers think that, which is really bad.

People are engaged in the content because it gives small meaningful increments at a steady pace in a longer journey to the end goal.

In my personal opinion the middle part of the game is just not fun anymore when the only thing with each new league is something "on top" with the rest being nerfed and neglected. That's not good for longevity.

I hope that at least some people share my sentiment.

Harvest Crafting should be an event that occurs only in the SSF league.

All other leagues are unnecessary because you can get the items you want through trade.

Why not reduce probability of more than 1~2 nodes per Harvest, keep the spawn rate of Harvest as it is, then reduce the probability of T1~3 rolls on the craft? Then what you do is make the player insert the currency listed, to receive a tradeable craft of that variety. Also, make targeted annulment take more than one annulment. Make it take 20? Or make it take the same as remove/add?

-This encourages trading outside of the Discord server.
-It makes it less likely to farm your own items in a week.
-Adds an RNG aspect that the devs appear to want.
-Still allows players the control over their items that some builds honestly need more than others, to progress in this game.
-Keeps expensive crafts expensive, allowing people with the time and currency to gamble their items into great items over time.
-Gives newer players a meaningful way to invest currency.

With adjusted weights, trading the crafts this way will make it a fun way to gamble currency for crafting, without making it feel like we're playing the lottery for each relevant stat, regardless of tier.

... At least this appears to be the consensus on the PoE Public Discord among players that I've discussed this with over voice chat.

Now, I fully realize that the odds of implementing my suggested changes are low, but I truly feel like the changes suggested in the original post will be detrimental to the community. For a good portion of us, Harvest was a major quality of life change for the better.

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Nyaluratohotep wrote:

Harvest Crafting should be an event that occurs only in the SSF league.

All other leagues are unnecessary because you can get the items you want through trade.

Thats the most stupid thing I have heard recently. And you think how these items are made? With harvest of course.

the worst part is i was having a blast playing this league, with plans for future playing etc.

Now after this announcement is sucked all the fun out of this league too. Why keep playing a game that is continously subjecting average players to this kind of thing?
Everytime i find something to love about the game they nerf it to heck.