[3.10] Toxic Rain Trickster 30 Mil Shaper DPS (the best one)

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passiontrix wrote:

thank you rlauren2 for that very well put explanation and eased my mind into trying this for 3.11 start.

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Viktranka wrote:

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rlauren2 wrote:

Now certainly if we extend for anything further than 4 seconds of constant shooting then the 3.10 duration stacker will win out. But my point is just that, in a practical sense, what appeared on paper to be a 33% loss ended up being initially a net gain in damage, and only turns into a loss after a relative eternity of ramp. A loss of 50% of the top line full ramp DPS number purely due to a loss in duration will not feel anything close to a 50% loss in real gameplay. And for most things, where stuff is dying before you even reach the top of your ramp, it won't actually be a net loss at all.

For long bosses that don't move or ones that allow you to shoot out pods before "activating", the DPS loss will be more noticeable. Losing eternal suffering does make it so that we can pick up more utility nodes like brush with death, exposure therapy, eldritch inspiration, flow of life, etc. instead for higher quality of life. Maybe me saying it will be "better" is too optimistic, but I guarantee it won't be as bad as it seems, and the survivability/QoL granted by these other nodes might actually make it feel a bit smoother in the end.

Glad to see you're optimistic, cuz it seems people are in full blown panic. If someone wants to see real nerf, check archmage and all the sources of %increased mana costs. That was harsh. Or how they flat out deleted the cluster node that have melees +1 impale.

But tbh, I'm starting to think if everyone is convinced TR is shit and strolls off to play VD necro or BV assassin then at least cheaper gear for those of us who stick with bow builds, less competition...

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rlauren2 wrote:

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passiontrix wrote:

thank you rlauren2 for that very well put explanation and eased my mind into trying this for 3.11 start.

In case anyone needed any more convincing:

Video

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rlauren2 wrote:

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HorizonSharp wrote:

I tried removing some of the duration to replicate what it will be like in 3.11 and Im losing about 45-50% dps.

Not to mention the chaos dot multi nerfs on the tree.

End game will gear with synthesis implicits certainly help balance things out, but I struggle to see it being better than before.

If you have the 2 cluster setup in 3.10 you can get 3.70 second duration on your TR from 270% inc. duration (20 from ascendancy, 15 tree, 20 malevolence, 240 clusters, -25 swift affliction).

In 3.11, you go down to only 95% increased duration changing nothing (20 ascendancy, 20 tree, 20 malevolence, 60 clusters, -25 swift affliction). You could make this 115% if you use the bow big clusters with Tempered Arrowheads. Either way, that net 3.7s drop to about 2s duration is where you get the 40% DPS loss.

But this loss is only the case at full ramp. If two characters stand next to each other and each start firing, the 3.10 and 3.11 version do the same damage initially, and the 3.10 version only starts doing more damage after standing still and firing continuously for more than 2 seconds. If you need 2 seconds to ramp to 15 mil dps and, starting from nothing, fire for 4 seconds, you will pump out a total of 45 mil damage. If you need 4 seconds to ramp to 30 mil dps and, starting from nothing, fire for 4 seconds, you will pump out a total of 60 mil damage. So we see that cutting max DPS by half due solely to cutting duration doesn't actually convert to losing half your damage in practice.

And, if I'm correct about gear being easier to obtain, it might be the case that you can achieve ~33% more per pod damage, albeit for only half duration. On paper, that will still end up looking like 3.11 being 0.5*1.33 = 66% DPS of 3.10 form, or a 33% loss. However, if we do the same problem as before:

Starting from zero and needing 2 seconds to ramp to 20 mil DPS, firing for 4 seconds = 60 mil total damage done.

Starting from zero and needing 4 seconds to ramp to 30 mil DPS, firing for 4 seconds = 60 mil total damage done.

Now certainly if we extend for anything further than 4 seconds of constant shooting then the 3.10 duration stacker will win out. But my point is just that, in a practical sense, what appeared on paper to be a 33% loss ended up being initially a net gain in damage, and only turns into a loss after a relative eternity of ramp. A loss of 50% of the top line full ramp DPS number purely due to a loss in duration will not feel anything close to a 50% loss in real gameplay. And for most things, where stuff is dying before you even reach the top of your ramp, it won't actually be a net loss at all.

For long bosses that don't move or ones that allow you to shoot out pods before "activating", the DPS loss will be more noticeable. Losing eternal suffering does make it so that we can pick up more utility nodes like brush with death, exposure therapy, eldritch inspiration, flow of life, etc. instead for higher quality of life. Maybe me saying it will be "better" is too optimistic, but I guarantee it won't be as bad as it seems, and the survivability/QoL granted by these other nodes might actually make it feel a bit smoother in the end.

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Vibramsouls wrote:

Feel free to take a look and tell me if I did anything wrong.