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Question: If you do lose a zombie, can you summon without a corpse? Does their own corpse count? Curious, really.
No, sadly you can't resummon a zombie from a dead zombie corpse.
Best bet for a fight like Sirus is to have desecrate available. For your setup you could throw it into your Portal gem spot without much issue.
You can work it in to a weapon swap spot for on demand usage like this, but if you've auras or heralds in your weapons you'd need to have them duplicated in the same locations in the swaps to avoid stuff turning off so can get a little messy.
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Posted byTsuDhoNimon Sep 7, 2020, 5:44:06 AM
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Playing around in POB tonight and was curious what would happen if I ditched the zombies (freed up two gems slots, due to shared gems) and replaced by Carrion Golems with Stone Golems and here what I came up with, all things being equal. Only skill gems switched out, as I now have the space for them. These were Feeding Frenzy and Flesh Offering. Obviously large DPS boosts. Important, as noted in the following reddit thread (creator or maintainer of POB Fork) mentioned that the following lines must be added for the Carrion Golem DPS numbers to be accurate (or close to accurate) in POB. Here is what they said to add to any item (I added it to my amulet and removed it when configuring for Stone Golem)
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"== Carrion Golem boost for nearby minions ==
Golems deal 50% more damage
=== Combo attack multiplier (based on others math) ===
Golems have 133% more attack speed
to any item
level 2
LocalIdentity1
Path of Building Community Fork Creator
6 points
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24 days ago
Also needs another “Golems deal 13% more damage” mod to account for the base damage increase on swings 3-6. I’ve fixed the Carrion DPS numbers in a PR that’ll be included in the next update"
So with that, I added the following to my Amulet:
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== Carrion Golem boost for nearby minions ==
Golems deal 50% more damage
== Additional to account for the base damage increase on swings 3-6 ==
Golems deal 13% more damage
=== Combo attack multiplier (based on others math) ===
Golems have 133% more attack speed
So with that said, this is what came up with, and note this is my specific config, I am not saying my specific config is the best way to gear these up. I favor mitigation and simplicity, so I am well aware that I could jack these numbers up further by switching out det for pride, etc... But the point was to compare, gear for gear, the difference between the golems. Using the stone golems I was able to make room for feeding frenzy and flesh offering, something I did not have room for with the Carrions. I didn't want to sacrifice certain things for it. If I went with the 1xChaos and 5xStone, I actually freed up 3 gem slots. The following DPS numbers from these three different configurations do not include the buffs from my AG, for any of these configs.
Carrion Golems
4 x 2,940,923 (Total = 11.8 Million)
1 Chaos (Physical Mitigation)
1 Stone (Health Regen)
80% Physical Mitigation (configured POB for a 3942 physical hit)
1570 Health Regen
Other Minion DPS? No clue... I have no idea if the flat damage added to the Zombies results in meaningful DPS. I am only only focused on the main DPS Golems.
Stone Golems
5 x 3,051,253 (Total = 15.3 Million)
1 Chaos (Physical Mitigation)
76% Physical Mitigation (configured POB for a 3942 physical hit)
1402 Health Regen
Note: Had to migrate almost all eminence to harmony just to get the CD lower than the length of the slam attack. While this did lower the DPS if slam (assuming there was no CD for the ability), it was necessary if we want the Stone Golem to use his Slam abiliy every time. Also note that the jewel conversion from eminence to harmony is what caused the slight drop in mitigation and regen, as the bonus to golems buffs for us drop.
Stone Golems Configuration 2
4 x 3,690,206 (Total = 14.8 Million)
1 Chaos (Physical Mitigation)
1 Lightning (Attack/Cast Speed Increase for us)
76% Physical Mitigation (configured POB for a 3942 physical hit)
1402 Health Regen
52.5% Increase Attack/Cast Speed - great for movement skills.
Hopefully others will find this somewhat useful. I think some questions I have revolve around the zombies and spectres and their respective DPS. The Carrions give them some nice fat flat increases, and so I probably need to explore the DPS increase from them and add their numbers in to really determine which brings more DPS to the table. Also please note, I am referring to the non-primordial version of these builds so they both have their support spectres. Host/Carnage Chieftain, primarily.
I read all of it and yet i have no clue what you say xD
any tl;dr?
Wondering if carrions are better or stones are better
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Posted bySwiftyOwnson Sep 7, 2020, 7:25:26 AM
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So this build heavily relies on Chaos resistance being maxed. While it's easy to max it out in Harvest (just slam +30-35% chaos res on any rare item), what's the strategy for the next league? It seems hard to find gear with Chaos resistance...
Easy with Deafening Essence of Envy.
Saint-Petersburg. KUPCHINO!
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Posted byDaniil8888on Sep 7, 2020, 7:34:38 AM
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Question: If you do lose a zombie, can you summon without a corpse? Does their own corpse count? Curious, really.
No, sadly you can't resummon a zombie from a dead zombie corpse.
Best bet for a fight like Sirus is to have desecrate available. For your setup you could throw it into your Portal gem spot without much issue.
You can work it in to a weapon swap spot for on demand usage like this, but if you've auras or heralds in your weapons you'd need to have them duplicated in the same locations in the swaps to avoid stuff turning off so can get a little messy.
Indeed, I was going to do that, but was too lazy. Cold Iron points are cheap, so a weapon spot isn't a problem, but like you said, then I gotta link it properly the same way (for my aura). But yeah... Definitely viable.
As it is now, I can't even play the game without my portal spell. something about opening inventory and right clicking to create a portal is tedious AF. I'll never play a toon without portal (with exception of the first part of the league, when I don't have it yet...) Even so, it takes up a gem slot.
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Posted byArchAngelGabe777on Sep 7, 2020, 11:23:27 AM
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I read all of it and yet i have no clue what you say xD
any tl;dr?
Wondering if carrions are better or stones are better
That is the point, though, I am not sure. The analyses on the DPS numbers would appear to favor the stone golems. However, there is more to consider. The Carrion's have better flat physical mitigation. Clear speed is something to consider too, as well as bosses that move a lot. They both use the same type of gear, so it is something you can try out.
Edit ** I also tested it out last night, so I did more than just plug the values into POB, I actually rerolled my sockets and slotted everything as tested. I don't want to really give a definitive answer, especially since we don't have patch notes for 3.12. Depending on what 3.12 does to the build, it might change my preference.
Last edited by ArchAngelGabe777 on Sep 7, 2020, 11:52:33 AM
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Posted byArchAngelGabe777on Sep 7, 2020, 11:26:17 AM
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...
I read all of it and yet i have no clue what you say xD
any tl;dr?
Wondering if carrions are better or stones are better
They are different. Grimjack wrote here -> https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2826004/page/158#p23476561 a really nice post comparing stone vs carrion in details, couple pages before.
Both have their pros and cons. (If you ask me, I would say Carrion are better (for end game), but personally I just like the play style of carrion more either. And Stone are cheaper for leveling and getting into end game)
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Posted bybigtoaster64on Sep 7, 2020, 11:36:24 AM
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What is the best way to have flat physical mitigation? I remember reading a post before about it but I just cant seem to find it now. It was something like chaos golem buff, crafted endurance charges, etc.
Also did someone finished the testing on the offensive ascendancies? There was an interesting debate about testing to apply shock on Drox. If someone has time it would be really good to find out if it works or not as it seems that there will be no changes for the ascendancies next patch...
to my knowledge, you have:
Chaos Golem
Endurance Charges
+Amulet Roll
Unless you neutered your build heavily, it seems to me that the upper end of flat physical mitigation you can acquire with the non-primordial chain version is something around this range:
Chaos = 26% (Ascendancy Nodes + 4 Eminent Jewels x 6 Golems)
Endurance Charges = 12% (4% flat physical per endurance charge)
Amulet = 5%
Watcher's Eye Determination Roll = 8%
Total = ~51%
That is much higher than most builds, which explains why it is so naturally tanky. The problem is, though, that it is hard to get over 5K life with the build. My Juggernaut, which was: Bleed Immune, Crit Immune, Ele Ailment Immune, 100K Armour and 20% flat physical had 8.2K health. Granted, his shaper DPS was only 5 million (less than half of this build), but it was able to face tank pretty much anything, especially if flasks were up. Sirus tripple blast didn't kill me even with the quad beam debuff. Seriously tanky, and I did all end-game content with it, including Simulacrum without death. But there were downsides, of course... Nearly impossible to beat many of the blights. But from I what understand, that is more of a Melee thing.
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Posted byArchAngelGabe777on Sep 7, 2020, 11:47:27 AM
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to my knowledge, you have:
Chaos Golem
Endurance Charges
+Amulet Roll
Unless you neutered your build heavily, it seems to me that the upper end of flat physical mitigation you can acquire with the non-primordial chain version is something around this range:
Chaos = 26% (Ascendancy Nodes + 4 Eminent Jewels x 6 Golems)
Endurance Charges = 12% (4% flat physical per endurance charge)
Amulet = 5%
Watcher's Eye Determination Roll = 8%
Total = ~51%
That is much higher than most builds, which explains why it is so naturally tanky. The problem is, though, that it is hard to get over 5K life with the build. My Juggernaut, which was: Bleed Immune, Crit Immune, Ele Ailment Immune, 100K Armour and 20% flat physical had 8.2K health. Granted, his shaper DPS was only 5 million (less than half of this build), but it was able to face tank pretty much anything, especially if flasks were up. Sirus tripple blast didn't kill me even with the quad beam debuff. Seriously tanky, and I did all end-game content with it, including Simulacrum without death. But there were downsides, of course... Nearly impossible to beat many of the blights. But from I what understand, that is more of a Melee thing.
I guess we all understand, but you can't compare a MS jugg with this build, it's not the same thing.
quick note: you can get to 80% physical damage reduction (I am) with no flask, no endurance charges, no % phys damage reduction mod on gear/tree, no watcher's eye.
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Posted bybigtoaster64on Sep 7, 2020, 12:47:41 PM
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I guess we all understand, but you can't compare a MS jugg with this build, it's not the same thing.
Understand what? Didn't know you can't compare if something isn't the same thing. By definition, if something is the same thing, what would there be to compare?
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quick note: you can get to 80% physical damage reduction (I am) with no flask, no endurance charges, no % phys damage reduction mod on gear/tree, no watcher's eye.
That is *NOT* flat physical damage reduction. If you don't have any of those things you mentioned, for this build, then you are, at best, 30% flat physical reduction. Your other ~50% calculated is with Armour, which assumes a base level mob physical hit.
So if a normal L83 mob hits you, then yes, you mitigate 80% of that hit. If a rare hits you with double the physical damage, you mitigate maybe 60% of it. If Sirus clips you with his triple die beam, you have maybe 40%. The way physical damage is mitigated is different from resistances, which doesn't face a penalty the larger the hit. 3000 vs 6000 lightning damage, for example, will still be only be 25% effective in both cases (unless it has penetration) assuming, for example, your max resistance is 75% and you don't have divine flesh, or whatever. I highly suggest you read up on how armor works.
Last edited by ArchAngelGabe777 on Sep 7, 2020, 3:12:15 PM
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Posted byArchAngelGabe777on Sep 7, 2020, 2:59:18 PM
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@ArchAngelGabe777: The challenge with non-primordial chain stone golems was the golem speed. The primordial chain neck gives them a lot of speed, carrions are plenty fast without it.
With that said, it's like debating what's better, the 100 million DPS build, or the 101 million DPS build. Either is going to work just fine for the content we have now.
Whether it's going to be viable in the stealth mode for Heist, well, that remains to be seen! :)
Current league IGN: Teldra_Anc_LAD
Feel free to message me in game if I'm on.
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Posted bygrimjack68on Sep 7, 2020, 3:12:26 PM
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