i was wondering if there is an update to the aoe calculations for ball lightning since they nerfed the aoe in 3.12 or am I wrong? Refering to the post below.:
"Ball lightning hits a maximum 13 times per cast if you have 40% increased AoE from the passive tree. Thus,
If you don't have 40% increased AoE, use 11 (0% AoE) or 12 (20% AoE) instead of 13."
The number that will change from the previous version is the 13/12/11 at the end of the calc, which has to do with the velocity and AoE of the projectile.
Each ball lightning hits every 150ms. So you have 6.66 hits per second (1000ms/150ms) from each ball lightning.
You need to figure out how many times each ball is within range of a target, to determine how much time each ball is exposed to a target. Then you take 6.66 * how many seconds your ball lightning will fly over enemy.
Ball lightning flies at a default velocity of 48 units per second. If you use slower proj, you're at 48*0.7 = 33.6 units per second. If you also use adjacent animosity anoint + slower proj, you're at 48*0.6 = 28.8 units per second.
If you're playing perfectly, the max distance over which your ball can hit an enemy is your cyclone radius + your ball lightning radius.
Level 21 cyclone at max stages has 18 radius, and ball lightning also has 18 radius. If you have no increased AoE, your damage distance is 18+18=36, let's say your velocity is 28.8, you have 36/28.8=1.25 seconds of exposure. So you'd be hitting 6.66*1.25 = 8.32 times per second with each ball lightning.
Increased area of effect is the next thing to calculate. We only care about RADIUS for our calc, but AREA is what is being calculated by "increased area of effect". Area = pi*radius^2, so radius = sqrt(area/pi). This means that we have to take the square root of your increased AoE to calculate how it affects our radius. E.g. with base 18 radius, and 30% increased AoE, we have sqrt(1.3) = 1.14x radius, or 18*1.14 = 20.52 ~=21 radius. So with 30% inc AoE we'd have 6.66*(21+21)/28.8 = 9.71 hits per second.
Maybe someone can comment on how to round the 'hits per second' here? I guess you always round down?
P.S. I think PoB still does not have correct AoE for BL (seems like still 22 radius instead of 18?) Also f you spec divergent ball lightning with 20% quality (10% chance for projectiles to be supercharged) PoB will give a 5% more area of effect, which kinda messes with the AoE calc.
Sounds about right. There are three factors you didn't consider. First, your target has a radius. Second, it is unrealistic to assume that you hit a target at the maximum range of cyclone. Lastly, I believe that BL projectiles hit enemies just when they are created, rather than after 150ms. There factors makes it hard to draw a clear conclusion without in-game experiments.
I'll do some tests later today and report the result here.
I'm really surprised how important dying sun is for mapclear. In my opinion its a must have in my build.
Could you use stormrider on a lightning cluster for better power charge generation? Looks like you'd lose arcane surge on your large cluster from Arcane Adept, not sure if that can be fixed elsewhere? I guess sockets are kinda strapped on aura stacker.
Also I've been considering dropping rumi's for dying sun in my build (can hit 75/74 block with glancing), I don't play super fast and feel like my clear is solid but LMP could be nice
He can't shock endgame bosses though. He converts 96% of lightning damage to cold, so he deals very little lighting damage. He can still shock bosses if he takes the cluster notable "enemies you chill with hits are shocked", but it is only available in medium cluster jewels. He obviously can't give up aura-effect cluster jewels.
Last edited by N0esy#1593 on Nov 4, 2020, 2:13:09 AM
He can't shock endgame bosses though. He converts 96% of lightning damage to cold, so he deals very little lighting damage. He can still shock bosses if he takes the cluster notable "enemies you chill with hits are shocked", but it is only available in medium cluster jewels. He obviously can't give up aura-effect cluster jewels.
Oh I didn't think about bosses not being frozen = call of the brotherhood not working. But also block doesn't proc super often on sirus so you're stuck with the same issue, annoying.
Sounds about right. There are three factors you didn't consider. First, your target has a radius. Second, it is unrealistic to assume that you hit a target at the maximum range of cyclone. Lastly, I believe that BL projectiles hit enemies just when they are created, rather than after 150ms. There factors makes it hard to draw a clear conclusion without in-game experiments.
I'll do some tests later today and report the result here.
Oh cool I didn't realize you did your calcs with in game tests and not just an arbitrary calc. Do you just record in pvp and slow down to see?
When I'm hitting a static target (while stationary) I find that when I'm near max range from target, I seem to get less BL procs. When I move slightly closer the procs go up to max. I've definitely done it when I am getting weird procs, spam flasks, still getting weird procs and move closer and get more procs. Is this something you've seen before, or could explain? Don't really think it's conc ground, but could be my bad internet + distance calculations?
Sounds about right. There are three factors you didn't consider. First, your target has a radius. Second, it is unrealistic to assume that you hit a target at the maximum range of cyclone. Lastly, I believe that BL projectiles hit enemies just when they are created, rather than after 150ms. There factors makes it hard to draw a clear conclusion without in-game experiments.
I'll do some tests later today and report the result here.
Oh cool I didn't realize you did your calcs with in game tests and not just an arbitrary calc. Do you just record in pvp and slow down to see?
Setup:
100% chance to poison
self-poison (you can track the number of poisons on you)
No physical damage = cyclone can't poison
add chaos damage to spells = BL can poison
more coc procs
I used level 21 slower projectiles and level 20 cyclone. It is highly likely that BL hits more with level 21 cyclone. I did all the experiments against the haunted mansion boss, since he is one of the smallest bosses and fairly stationary.
Result:
Without Adjacent Animosity
0-20% increased AoE: 7 times
30-60% increased AoE: 8 times
70-100% increased AoE: 9 times
With Adjacent Animosity
0-30% increased AoE: 8 times
40-70% increased AoE: 9 times
80-100% increased AoE: 10 times
Keep in mind that these results are obtained when I kept the max distance from the target. If you get closer to the target, you'll need more AoE for BL to hit the same number of times.
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efun wrote:
When I'm hitting a static target (while stationary) I find that when I'm near max range from target, I seem to get less BL procs. When I move slightly closer the procs go up to max. I've definitely done it when I am getting weird procs, spam flasks, still getting weird procs and move closer and get more procs. Is this something you've seen before, or could explain? Don't really think it's conc ground, but could be my bad internet + distance calculations?
That's strange. I've never encountered that kind of behavior.
Last edited by N0esy#1593 on Nov 4, 2020, 3:25:02 PM
He can't shock endgame bosses though. He converts 96% of lightning damage to cold, so he deals very little lighting damage. He can still shock bosses if he takes the cluster notable "enemies you chill with hits are shocked", but it is only available in medium cluster jewels. He obviously can't give up aura-effect cluster jewels.
Oh I didn't think about bosses not being frozen = call of the brotherhood not working. But also block doesn't proc super often on sirus so you're stuck with the same issue, annoying.
Freeze immunity is nothing to do with this discussion. Critical strikes have 100% chance to shock anyway, so "100% chance to shock against frozen enemies" has literally no effect in crit builds.
Even if you have 100% chance to shock, the shock effect you are inflicting must be 5% or more, otherwise the shock will be discarded. Shock effect is calculated based on the LIGHTNING damage you deal and enemy's max life (or ailment threshold). Since he deals almost no lightning damage, there is no chance that his shock effect exceeds 5% against endgame bosses.
Last edited by N0esy#1593 on Nov 4, 2020, 3:38:34 PM
Freeze immunity is nothing to do with this discussion. Critical strikes have 100% chance to shock anyway, so "100% chance to shock against frozen enemies" has literally no effect in crit builds.
Even if you have 100% chance to shock, the shock effect you are inflicting must be 5% or more, otherwise the shock will be discarded. Shock effect is calculated based on the LIGHTNING damage you deal and enemy's max life (or ailment threshold). Since he deals almost no lightning damage, there is no chance that his shock effect exceeds 5% against endgame bosses.
Ah right right, thanks for the explanation. A high enough % cold conversion build will rarely shock against enemies with sufficient HP.
I used level 21 slower projectiles and level 20 cyclone. It is highly likely that BL hits more with level 21 cyclone. I did all the experiments against the haunted mansion boss, since he is one of the smallest bosses and fairly stationary.
Result:
Without Adjacent Animosity
0-20% increased AoE: 7 times
30-60% increased AoE: 8 times
70-100% increased AoE: 9 times
With Adjacent Animosity
0-30% increased AoE: 8 times
40-70% increased AoE: 9 times
80-100% increased AoE: 10 times
Keep in mind that these results are obtained when I kept the max distance from the target. If you get closer to the target, you'll need more AoE for BL to hit the same number of times.
Cool self poison setup for the calcs. Do you just try to proc 1 (or low countable number) of ball lightning at max range and count the stacks of poison on the top bar? Or do you just screen record while fully cycloning and then count it up later?
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N0esy wrote:
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efun wrote:
When I'm hitting a static target (while stationary) I find that when I'm near max range from target, I seem to get less BL procs. When I move slightly closer the procs go up to max. I've definitely done it when I am getting weird procs, spam flasks, still getting weird procs and move closer and get more procs. Is this something you've seen before, or could explain? Don't really think it's conc ground, but could be my bad internet + distance calculations?
That's strange. I've never encountered that kind of behavior.
Ah okay, I was curious if it was common/normal cuz it has bugged me on and off. I swear I've had it happen against the volcano boss that doesn't move, when I moved in slowly to hit max-ish range and was getting 3-4 BL procs a second until I moved slightly closer and hit 9-10. could just be a conc ground/flask thing because I haven't explicitly tested it. You mentioned that enemies have a 'size' as well, is this just a circle or more of a hitbox?
Ok so I'm gonna try get an amulet with clarity mana reserve and some bonkers other mods ( RIP currency ) + cdr stygian vise belt since i need the mana reserve. Then ill need at least 1 or 2 more mana reserve on either a medium cluster jewel or on unnatural instinct or transcendent flesh or intuitive leap ( RIP currency again ) :D but ill need taht to run the clarity on my amulet to be able to socket in purity of lightning instead of the clarity.
Now for the last part ill need rare boots with cdr i was wondering what boots i should take. I read somewhere on reddit taht the action speed buff from tailwind is bugged with cyclone. Do you guys know if this is still the case? Otherwise id take Tailwind + movement speed + cdr and any es i can get.
Im gonna need to grind for at least a week maybe 2 to be able to afford these upgrades :D I might need to change my watchers eye if i cant hit the attacks per second breakpoint to get 10 procs on 52% cdr. I need to work in blood rage aswell since i cannot swap ascendancy's i need the guardian for physical dmg reduction and the juggernaut for stun immunity. Running 100% delerious maps with just a boot enchant or something like that is not enough i cant use any medium cluster jewels to get stun immunity while channeling either so my biggest issue is the attack speed breakpoint.
Hopefully you guys can follow my thinking since this aurastacking ball lightning cyclone build is kinda out there.
