*Now with full-story summary & cover* Okay brutally honest internet, rip my story apart!

@Morkonan

Wow, that was incredibly thorough, and I've already made some changes based on your feedback (especially the wordiness)!

The prologue bit has been a toughy. The whole story is a loop that starts and ends with that prologue (in fact the epilogue and a paragraph in the middle of the book is basically a copy/paste of it.) It's the core mystery of the story. If I don't put it out as a prologue, what's a better way to get it in the reader's mind from super early on?

As for the narrator issues, the intention was that the narrator only knows what Violina knows. I'm surprised that was causing as much confusion as it was.

The big scary point you brought up though was my inability to rebrand/republish. I've rewritten almost everything, added new chapters, renamed the title, changed my pen name and character names etc... If I remove Inevitable Ascension from Amazon, can I really not go forward with The Price of Perfection via a publisher? Where is the line?

"

KZA wrote:

...It's the core mystery of the story. If I don't put it out as a prologue, what's a better way to get it in the reader's mind from super early on?

You say it's "the core mystery of the story." That's not a good way to look at it - The "core mystery of the story" is in the story. It's part of the story.

A prologue needs to set something up that you can't do in any other way. Prologues that take place in another "time" in the setting are notoriously clunky. And, when you then make the whole story a "flashback" leading up to that prologue, you're telling the reader that the story doesn't matter. There's less drama, as the reader knows that the story will eventually get to the "prologue" no matter what happens and no matter what risks are being written about. "All roads lead to this," said the Reader. "I already know the ending!"

Let's say that your prologue, though it is very short, constitutes all of what you wanted to convey in a prologue of longer length. That's the prologue boiled down to its most important point, right? OK... so..

Remove it entirely.

Problem solved.

Seriously - Remove it. It serves no purpose for the reader. Only you know why its there and what it means. From Page One of the Prologue the reader is chained to an idea that they can not know the significance of. Is that what you want your reader to feel like when they're reading about your gritty adventure story?

"Hey, it's page fifty! When the F is all this prologue stuff gonna be explained?"

Jumping around in time sucks. It's got a whole suitcase full of problems that comes along with it. And, they're not just "plot" problems, either. They're very significant Reader issues that disconnect the reader from the events they're supposed to be experiencing "in the now."

What I would suggest is easy - Dump your intent in terms of the "Prologue" and let the characters in the story discover these things for themselves AND the reader. Where you need "setting" details, write them in. Where you need exposition for the boring bits, write those into the story in appropriate places where the characters have just overcome some big hurdle and the reader gets some extra info as a reward. Or, you can have a Wise Man come down from his mountain and "inform" the characters, and the reader, about the setting. Maybe they share "secret knowledge?" Or, perhaps you're writing an Epic? In that case, you can easily put in a "Meanwhile, back at the ranch" chapter where the reader is transported to another place, with other characters, and where the Reader may learn things that your main characters can not yet know?

"

As for the narrator issues, the intention was that the narrator only knows what Violina knows. I'm surprised that was causing as much confusion as it was.

It caused some confusion only inasmuch as I saw it drifting into possible problems. I was worried that may continue until the narrator became too unreliable or undefined.

"

The big scary point you brought up though was my inability to rebrand/republish. I've rewritten almost everything, added new chapters, renamed the title, changed my pen name and character names etc... If I remove Inevitable Ascension from Amazon, can I really not go forward with The Price of Perfection via a publisher? Where is the line?

It. Is. Done.

You can't fix that. It's been published. And, unless it's "The Martian" or one of the other handful of books that were snapped up and republished after being released as epubs, which it likely isn't, you won't get a publisher paying you for it. (You will, however, get vanity houses and scam artists offering to publish it for you for a "nominal fee."

A real publishing house takes risks. They take risks in paying for the cost of printing and distributing a book because they have paid for the Rights to do that. There is a contract that says you get %xx monies from the publisher based on sales, perhaps even some hard currency up front. They may even put you on a "Book Tour" and pay for those cool cardboard display end-cappers to be print, cut, and distributed to booksellers to set your hard-copy on. They've also given Barnes&Nobles thousands of monies to put your book at the front of their stores for a whole two weeks! There will be a contract with your agent that says they get %xx monies from what you get paid, as well. (That is, after all, why they're an Agent that represents you.) The publisher also has a contract with their printing house that they will pay for printing that book for xx.xx hard currency monies for every copy and the guy watching the covers getting embossed has to be paid, too. The publisher also has yearly budget considerations of all sorts and they have decided to dedicate a significant portion of their budget and energy to printing, distributing, and promoting this one book of yours. Some other worthy author got slushpiled because they made that decision, too. So sad...

Then they discover that the book is actually being given away for free on Amazon and they have no legitimate rights connected to it at all?

You do see the problem there, right? :)

It's done. The only way someone is going to put that book or any version of it in print is if it becomes rampantly popular and some editor somewhere gets convinced by a friend that they should risk their employer's money on printing that book as a second release and then betting that they can sell it for more money than what you're currently selling it for on Amazon... See how that works? :)

If you try to hide any of that then you will be sued in court by "everyone." That's something that scared the bejeebus out of me when I read you were thinking of doing just that. You'd be up to your eyeballs in civil suits and may even get some criminal fraud going on for presenting your manuscript as an unpublished work.

But, if you're a writer, then you write. There's another book in you and another story to be told. There's always another story to be told. You've already passed the first, most important, milestone there is - You actually wrote a book. You finished a book!

I don't know if you realize just what you've achieved in doing that. It's significant. It's important. It's more than just "popping your cherry" as a writer - You wrote a friggin' book. Most "writers" don't finish anything and just keep chewing on the same tired manuscript forever.

If you can write one, you can write another. If you can come up with one story worth being written, you can come up with another. Why worry about it? It's done. Stop worrying about it because it's not the only story you can ever write.

Writers write. As a Professional, you should be able to be called upon without notice to write something. Something. If you are a professional, then you can practice your craft when needed.

Go write a three scene story of about ten pages that doesn't have anything at all to do with that book or its setting. Zero. Write something completely different and get your old story out of your head. Stop chewing on it. :) You'll be surprised just how liberating and refreshing that will feel. Do it.

PS - Don't be upset by this mistake. It's not worth being upset about. "Now you know." It's done and there isn't anything you can do about it, so don't waste a tear over it. You're a writer. You've already written a book. Now is your chance to have a great deal of fun writing something completely new!

Good news! Amazon lets you unpublish books!

https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G201743290

You would still have to disclose prior publishing.

There's really no way to get around that. No "legal" way, that is. And, if you choose to commit fraud and do not disclose prior publishing then you have to realize that once you are discovered there isn't a legit publisher in the world that would ever consider publishing anything you wrote. Forever. You'd be hardcore blacklisted.

It's really OK. Seriously - You put your book up, people read it and commented, you've gained some confidence (which is critical and is why most writers are egotistical a$$hats anyway :)) and now you're free of the prison of "story" you built for yourself. You are free to write something new and better than what you've already done.

Note: IF, and that's a very big "if," you ended up polishing your previous work and turning it into something very marketable, your prior publishing may be ignored in favor of promoting that polished work. It has happened with a handful of e-pub writers and a couple of "fanfic"... uh.. "writers." A handful, only. For the stories that don't match up with whatever wave publishers are trying to latch onto at that time? That's just another strike against taking on those stories. Remember: Every publisher is a business and they pay employees that need to eat most days. They pay, up front, all the costs of actually producing, selling, and marketing a "book." While they may require you to do some work on your own after the contract is signed, you're doing that with monetary compensation involved. Money. Money means "real rules in real life."

I strongly suggest you start frequenting some reputable writing groups, writing forums, and maybe try to get a good understanding of the publishing process. Quite a bit of legal understanding involving intellectual property rights, copyright, and other such things can help you as well.

One general rule that will help you navigate what is often a place where predators lurk: No reputable publisher, editor, or agent will ever charge you for anything up front. Zero. There is only one exception that I can think of - A qualified, degree'd, copy editor with legitimate bona fides listed may offer their services to review your work and make general edits and corrections. (You should be able to confirm their bona fides if in doubt, as well.)

However, if you are a "professional" that should not be needed. A "professional" keeps the tools of their trade as sharp as possible. :) (Publishers have copy editors in-house and it's part of their expense.) Any copy editor you hire to review your own work should have an advanced language degree and make their living in that field. (An MFA review would legitimately command a higher cost, btw.) Paying some random shmoe $300.00 to review your manuscript is A Bad Idea ™. :)

Good luck out there! "Break a leg!" :)

PS - There are some good places to go to get really good advice for free. You can even get good legal advice for free. (Though, it's not "legally binding" of course.) You can interact with other writers that have been through what you're going through as well. And, you can find places like that without having to buy a thing and without being subjected to constant marketing scams involving you paying money for something you don't need. Those places are out there and they'll serve you much better than a game forum can.

Lots of good insight once again. Thanks.

Goodness though.... I sure enjoy writing a good story 1000x more than dealing with marketing and all the legal junk that comes along with that. I wish there was a good way for me to just focus on what I do best, and then let someone else manage everything else.

"

KZA wrote:

Lots of good insight once again. Thanks.

Goodness though.... I sure enjoy writing a good story 1000x more than dealing with marketing and all the legal junk that comes along with that. I wish there was a good way for me to just focus on what I do best, and then let someone else manage everything else.

I'd like to be able to tie my shoes without bending over, but that would mean that I'd either have to cut off my legs or buy "Loafers." Nobody likes "Loafers" and not having legs means all my socks would be useless.

A literary agent takes care of all of that dross... mostly. But, it shouldn't surprise you that being a "Professional" comes with a lot of work a non-professional wouldn't necessarily expect. Doctors have to know about insurance, or hire people that do, and have to keep current on all the latest medical stuffs. Programmers have to keep their skills honed and understand the latest language developments. Lawyers have to cash checks. It's crazy! ;)

You could gain an Agent by submitting your already published manuscript and a Query Letter with what you're working on. Having a full sample of previous work can let them know if you're worth representing. And, there's always a chance it's worth publishing in its own right, despite the Amazon listing. (Though, I wouldn't send the full manuscript. Rather "sell" the manuscript in the Query, tell them you're working on another and sell that, then include pertinent information on prior publishing - Amazon and ISBN#. Actually "finishing" a book is a big deal.)

Look up your favorite authors that write in the genre you are working in. Find out who their agents/houses are. Target those Agents. Don't be afraid to ask for suggestions for other Agents, either.

Going to writing conventions, book fairs, etc, isn't a bad idea if you want to get some face-time. Look them up. Find out who is sponsoring them and what their reputation is. Find out who will be there, what publishers/agents/etc are attending and what their reputation is.

Going to ones where you're paying out the nose for a "ticket" and you're expected to pay for a "seminar" and then pay someone so you get a chance to talk to them... is a "pass." There are far too many of those where self-professed "Professional" writing "clubs" host keynote speakers you've never heard of talking about their latest vanity-press book and asking for handouts for their "U Two Can Self-Publish" seminars.

Let's say you become the next Blockbuster Novelist. OK, congrats! But, you'll still have to do "non-writing" work. Your publisher is going to want to market the heck out of you. Book-signings and appearances and all that jazz are in your future. (Paid for, thankfully, since you are now a celebrity.) You will also have to do some "self publicity" stuff too, like in social media circles. You'll be expected to have a friggin' Twitter Account and post garbage on Facebook and maybe even have your own website where all your fans can gush over your every word. (Which is only appropriate for a writer, but still...) Some of that work, however, will be done "for you." You'll hire someone to run your website, maybe even post some Twits, keep your Facebook page updated, ban posters from your websites, etc. But, you'll still be expected to do something other than just ink-to-page. You're a "Professional" at that point so you have to act like one. :)

Note: I have no idea what the story is about and don't care - I only ever care about how a story is written when I'm responding to things like this. From what I read, and I admit that it wasn't much, you have the potential for "print." You do need to so some work, just like anyone else would have to do. At the very least, it's better than most of what I would have expected to see in a "Read my stuffs" post on a game forum. :) That's the only reason I commented. ;)

PS - Another good thing about your opening, aside from the slight Conflict attracting the reader's attention in the "Argument" and the fact that there's some "Mystery" there - It's a "Profession" opening.

Every reader loves reading about a "Profession." A job. A character's "Work." The more unique and strange it is, the more likely it will light up a reader's brain. Who doesn't enjoy learning about a new profession and all the little details those who practice it have to deal with? "Criminals," especially, have a hard-lock on a reader's attention span. Those who "Investigate" them do, too. But, it could be any profession, really, for this point - Readers read in order to have a new experience. Part of that experience, that "new" experience, can often deal with a Profession.

You combined a "Profession," that of someone skirting the law to sell artifacts to a dealer/fence, with that Argument (conflict) opening as well as some Mystery and a bit of internal reflection and doubt from the main character... all in a couple of paragraph's worth of words.

You want to spice up the Dreaded Middle of the Story? Add more stuffs about this strange and interesting "Profession" your main characters are engaged in. I guarantee, 100%, it'll draw attention if you include enough cool and interesting details. You've got "drama" built into that particular sort of profession, too, and it'll combine well with the mere process/working bits.

That was very nice to see. It's like watching a nice parry in fencing match even if the guy you're watching loses! Most people won't remember that loss, only that wonderful parry. What if you see a great football play that ends with a masterful pass downfield and an "almost touchdown?" It doesn't matter who won, only that it got "Play of the Game." (Sadly, they tend to only pick those things from the "winning" team, these days.)

That's how your opener appeared to me. No, it wasn't perfect, but it had all the stuffs needed to be great already contained within. That stuff isn't easy and doesn't come naturally. You learn to do that. You have been taught to do that through your own experiences or just sitting in a writing class or reading a book on writing that covers specifically about doing exactly that. (I'm being serious and honest. It was very nice to watch that unfold in your head... through writing.)

So, there ya go... That's what kept me reading. That's what keeps any reader reading. You did that. It's your only goal as a writer and it's what every book depends upon.

Keep the Reader reading.