*Now with full-story summary & cover* Okay brutally honest internet, rip my story apart!

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

The_Scourge wrote:

Thank Scrotie for providing me with an excuse to contribute by way of his tomfoolery.

I can rest assured that, if you hear me simply tell someone they aren't ready and should give up, you will always ready them as much as possible and encourage them onward. In this case, in a way I couldn't possibly have accomplished myself, as I lack your relevant experience. Thank you for delivering as expected.

Imagine how much good you could do if you knew certain people would always respond to your social media posts by scrambling for any way they could to prove you wrong, fact-checking every trivial detail and explaining at length how you're a miserable liar.

I dont always agree with Scrotie, but when I do, it's because of a Sith lord.

"

The_Scourge wrote:

Anyway unless you have specific queries for me I've said enough and see little to no engagement with my contribution. Thank Scrotie for providing me with an excuse to contribute by way of his tomfoolery. Best of luck.

Thanks for all your thoughts, I'm chewing on all your points and figuring out what to do with them!

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

That said, I'm a little confused by your project. It looks like you have already published it? https://www.amazon.com/Inevitable-Ascension-V-K-McAllister-ebook/dp/B015AS2FTA

So what is the purpose of this thread, exactly? Are you looking to substantially rewrite your book?

Yep. It's already been rewritten actually. In those 56 reviews I've gotten, there's been a lot of good feedback that I've incorporated.

And although the reviews have been largely positive, getting people to 1) realize the book exists and 2) read it has proven wildly difficult. I was thinking that rebranding and trying to go through an agent might be a better route.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

I dont always agree with Scrotie, but when I do, it's because of a Sith lord.

Hate is a powerful force that can and should be harnessed for good. Some superstitiously say to just throw it away, but in this case I argue for using the whole buffalo.

"

KZA wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

That said, I'm a little confused by your project. It looks like you have already published it? https://www.amazon.com/Inevitable-Ascension-V-K-McAllister-ebook/dp/B015AS2FTA

So what is the purpose of this thread, exactly? Are you looking to substantially rewrite your book?

Yep. It's already been rewritten actually. In those 56 reviews I've gotten, there's been a lot of good feedback that I've incorporated.

And although the reviews have been largely positive, getting people to 1) realize the book exists and 2) read it has proven wildly difficult. I was thinking that rebranding and trying to go through an agent might be a better route.

I don't know how to say this... Okay I read it, it was a good read, (extremely mediocre). BUT you need to understand we get a few writers in off topic quite a bit. Don't be discouraged as someone on here had something published and I gave an honest opinion and was crucified. However long story short, critics said the same thing. I digress...

Anyways to be constructive and positive with you; YOU need to see the movie, "Can You Ever Forgive Me." It's pretty accurate; the life of many writers. You need to understand if you think you're doing good, there are THOUSANDS who think the same.

Here's my sincere advice... Find a book that you enjoy and pick one in which the author is still alive. EMAIL him or her... 100% know he or she will email you feedback. On the other hand; you have a(n) legitimate Author on here giving you their honest advice however "mean," it may come off.

(This isn't fucking high school if you can't take criticism on the forums you can't take criticism anywhere).

After reading countless comments I feel the majority are valid, but so far it seems many are talking to a person under the influence and telling them, "please don't drive."

Wait, Solwitch, you read the book? I'm certainly not offended by critical feedback (worst case scenario, I think about it, disagree and leave it at that). I'd be thrilled to hear some specifics. I've been getting a good amount of general advice, but if there are lines, plot arcs, characters or other things you can point to in the text and tell me your thoughts, that'd be awesome!

"extremely mediocre" seems odd... While the reviews I've thus far received have commented a lot about how overly dark and fast paced the story is, how psycho the protagonist becomes to the point of not feeling connected to her, how the humor sometimes feels out of place given the grim circumstances, an overly complex plot or the less than perfect grammar, the one thing no one has ever complained about is boredom.

"

KZA wrote:

"extremely mediocre" seems odd... While the reviews I've thus far received have commented a lot about how overly dark and fast paced the story is, how psycho the protagonist becomes to the point of not feeling connected to her, how the humor sometimes feels out of place given the grim circumstances, an overly complex plot or the less than perfect grammar, the one thing no one has ever complained about is boredom.

I am not sure Mediocre means boring there.
Anyway, look at poe. Look all the action and explosions and loots and crazy stuff. Still it get boring after few hours of that.

"

KZA wrote:

...They tend to make up their mind within the first 2-3 pages...

If someone reads the first two to three pages, at least they're interested enough to read that far. That's a bonus. Most submissions can be fairly judged for their quality in a page or so.

"

and synopsis

Your back-cover copy is important for that, but your two-page submission as a summary is unnecessary. And, it's also "arguing in favor of a story." That's ungood. The story is what argues for its own worth. The back-cover copy, a short paragraph or even just a few sentences, is what matters.

Can you sum up your story and convince a reader to read it in just five sentences or so?

If you can't, something is wrong with the story or your vision of what it is. I'm serious. :)

Write five sentences or so that tells me, the guy at the bookstore who bothers to turn your book over to read what the "story is about", that I must not leave the bookstore without buying your book. "Buy this book or we shoot this dog" is a viable inducement... for a certain type of book or magazine. :)

I didn't read your synopsis on purpose. Why? Nobody else will, either. It could be suitable to use portions of it, rewritten, for a Query Letter. For a critique or beta-read, it's not something you'd want to put out there unless you're focusing on discussions of plot or character development, setting, etc... "Big Story Bits" kind of stuff. Those are very intimate things for a writer to talk about and a lot of writers wouldn't want to "contaminate" their own ideas. They might, for instance, want to know what betas think about a character's progression/development or about certain plot bits, though. But "Big Picture" stuff is your exclusive territory. :)

For query letters and other submissions: https://www.writersdigest.com/online-editor/the-10-dos-and-donts-of-writing-a-query-letter

"

Cover:

No.

I didn't look at that because nobody should. An Editor of quality isn't going to care about it, either. A vanity publisher might gush over it if you did it yourself, but they just want your money. "That's the best thing ever! We have professional artists that aren't that great! You're awesome! We can put you in print for only $3000.00. Four-color and full embossing included!"

Don't give betas "cover art" because they'll just be distracted by it. Any imagery they get needs to come straight from their minds and be inspired by your words. Do you want betas asking you why the cover-art character has purple hair? Doesn't have beard? Has a beard? Is a man/woman/undecided? No, you don't. You want them giving you feedback on what the publisher is going to be paying you for - Words.

"

Reminiscences of a Man Left to Burn

“It’s been 14 years since the Second Sun lit the world on fire… 14 years since God killed us. I still recall its soul-petrifying voice and the exact words spoken that day: ‘How oft would I have sacrificed myself to save you, but you would not be saved. I know you all in perfect clarity, and there are none good among you. You sanctified greed and vilified reason. When met with innocence, you did not so much as ask her name before tearing her from existence. You have eyes yet see nothing. I’ve shut my eyes, and I see everything. On this day the Second Sun will set, and as you push one another’s heads under the poison to keep your own afloat, so will you nevertheless drown. I’ve paid the price of perfection—my inevitable ascension.’”

Somewhat clunky. For myself, I'd write out "fourteen." It's a speedbump, otherwise, in dialogue. (Just me) Some of this is a bit overdramatic in tone. It's also kind of "wordy" as if the "ancient speech" theme is a bit forced. Honestly? I'd chop it up so it was more concise, quicker to the point but not losing its import. And, by doing that you would make it even more "mysterious."

Yet, it's not really a "Prologue" in the sense that it's a necessary backstory, remote occurrence, or setting piece. There's little in the way of "information" relevant to what the reader will be experiencing, is there? A submission of testimony in the form of a soliloquy by an unnamed, unknown, character and that doesn't really set the tone/setting is more of a distraction than anything else. So, for instance, the reader turns to page one after reading your "Prologue" and gets confused because the Prologue and opening paragraphs aren't connected in any way. That would be "ungood."

Now, as a header piece for a chapter, that might be very interesting. A lot of authors do that. Some choose quotations by historical figures, real or imagined. In fantasies, there's a lot done with quotes from "mysterious texts" or verses of prophesies. Some might include quips from the main character or others. "Chapter One - I bet you're wondering how I got in this situation." etc..

So:
.....
Chapter 1


"You have damned Innocence and the Second Sun will witness my Ascension." - God


“What do you mean you aren’t going to pay us?”
.....

(Note: I'm not bothering with proper manuscript formatting due to medium constraints. But, review basic novel/novella submission guidelines for manuscripts in your own work, whether its for beta-readers or not. Obviously, don't include contact/addy info and that sort of thing. But, double-spaced, courier or something legible, 12 pt, margins if you can, etc.. It helps.)

On your opening: I like the pace. You've got "something going on." It's not quite an "Action Opening" but it is a "Conflict Opening." You've got a character having a conflict with another character. This is GOOD for gaining a reader's attention. An "argument" draws in a reader like a wick feeding a flame. Any good "drama" genre work is going to have at least fifty-eleven arguments about something in it. :) (But, of course, there has to be a decent amount of Risks and Stakes involved, too.)

You want that. You want to grab the reader's face and force them to read what's on the page. You also want questions to rise to the fore and force the reader to read on in order to receive the "answers." This "capture their attention" and then feeding them a "carrot-on-a-stick" approach is very valuable. In fact, the first and most common response from your betas will no doubt include the word "interested." (Or a form thereof.) Why? Because there's a "conflict" and a "question" about what's going on that demands... interest.

Note: Do not follow my example and succumb to the temptation of using trailing periods/full-stops. Don't. Do. It. They're unnecessary and you will find them too easily relied upon to "write" whatever it was you should have written instead of those trailing periods... <-- See? :) Unnecessary. Sloppy. In fact, they should be used sparingly and never, ever, used outside of dialogue unless you're dealing with a very particular sort of narrator with certain habits you'd like to emphasize. Even then... I wouldn't.

I didn't read past the first couple of paragraphs, by the way. Why? Because I got what I needed to know just from that small bit in order to write the above. That is "A Good Thing ™." Good job, there.

"Mr. Clanton leaned back in his tufted leather chair, looking undecided as to whether he should smirk or roll his eyes at Violina’s demand."

I don't know what that means.

That is an example of something that is "poorly written." By that, I mean you intend to describe a very specific sort of facial expression and then end up writing something that serves only to confuse the reader. Objective failed.

You could fix that by removing the word "looking." It's as simple as that! Or, is it? If you remove that word what do you do? You change the Narrator and may be giving them unintended omniscience. Is that what you want? Let's see... (See how redundant those trailing periods are there? Yup! What should have been there? A colon. Maybe a hyphen, but those are for interruptions and I certainly didn't do that to myself...)

From what I quickly glanced through, you've got a somewhat omniscient narrator. I don't know that you want that. If so, then why its absence with Mr. Clanton? Is that to project a sort of focus? For instance:

"...Out in the lobby, Lux, a slender girl with long platinum hair was pacing back and forth...."

OK, that's more of a third-person omniscient. No problem.

"...Though she dreaded admitting it, she knew he had her cornered..."

A bit more intimate, but it doesn't break any "rules." (Rules, guidelines, conventions... whatever - It's not problematic.)

"...There was only one hope left..."

Hmmm.. Getting a bit more intimate here and somewhat problematic. Is the Narrator reliable? The Narrator is describing something here that is likely best left to...actually writing it out.

Why is there only one hope left? Why does the character think that? Why didn't you write those things instead of writing "There was only one hope left" and, if this is internal reflection does that conflict with other narrative choices or not? Could you have gone full-on "internal dialogue" here with better, more intimate, effect? I don't know. But, you might! Write it out again, but try different approaches. Tell "me", the reader, why there is "only one hope left" and use an effective collection of words to communicate that. If it's not important at all as to why there is only that one hope left... then delete the line. If, however, the character thinks she has only "one more chance to get him to make good on his contract", write that.

"...Lux was never one to pass up an opportunity to be snarky..."

How do I know that? Why would the narrator know that? Who is this Narrator and why do they think that girl is "snarky?"

That's a difficulty you're having in this submission. It's "slight" but noticeable. It's not an uncommon thing, either - Losing narrative focus is often seen as a small issue, but it becomes telling the more often you do it and it lays a very large burden on the brain of the reader.

So, is the narrator the Main Character? It seems likely. (I haven't read all of your text, but I don't need to for this.) Yet, there are moments where it seems fast-and-loose with the "rules." My interpretation? Wrong? Maybe... But, I'm a "reader" too, right? :)

"...“Fine, it went badly,” replied Violina..."

Good.

Why?

A common mistake for new writers would be to write:

"Fine. It went badly." replied Violina."

You wrote that attribution correctly, which lets me know you're paying attention to stuffs and already know some things. And, that lets me ignore that stuff and move on to what you're creating with those tools!

"... It had been 10 years since an 11-year-old Violina ran away from home to make her own way in the world—an easy decision considering her mother was dead and her scoundrel of a father was a pawn of the mob.... "

Uh, wow. You just wrote an entire story with one sentence and that story may be more interesting than the one you're currently telling. If you wanted to hit the reader in the face with a baseball-bat's worth of distraction, you just did. :)

I'd try to turn that in another direction, only giving a small hint of whatever flavor of theme you wanted to insert. It may be difficult to do, but once you figure it out you can very easily keep the reader focused while still giving them an impression of her sad childhood. Being "on the streets since she was eleven" is a start. Note: You wrote "eleven-year-old." Very good! :)

Note: If you really wanted to give the reader some pause here, OK. But, I think it'd be better to give some hints and then, later in the story during some reflective/intimate moment, you reveal enough bits and pieces to truly solidify the character in the mind of the reader. Preferably, a few chapters before you start developing her character-arc in earnest.

"...Aggravated, but far from surrender,..."

You've heard it, read it, lived it, but need to read it again: "Show, don't tell."

Give me some emotion, here. What does a person do when they're aggravated? You've done some stage-direction already. Why leave it behind now when it's actually important? A bad example:

"Violina's hand drifted to the hilt of her dagger..."

"Violina tensed, her hand drifting towards the hand of her dagger."

Dunno if she even has one. Maybe? Don't care, really, since that's not the point. The point is you're taking some liberties with your narrator and it may be better if you didn't. (Some would most certainly argue against me. They're wrong, tho... ;p)

That's a "Big Picture" thing you might want to focus on - Narrator. I'm not saying it's bad or wrong or horrible. No. I'm saying there are times when I get lost between the actions and dialogue that are occurring in the "now" and the Narrator interpreting them for me. I am supposed to be experiencing these things. Where appropriate, the character is also supposed to be experiencing these things and the text is going to transcribe that experience... to me. (Transpose/transcribe/tomato/tomato) When it does the work for me then part of that active reading and engagement gets lost. Needlessly. That's the whole concept behind "Show, don't tell" even though its a pretty tired concept and often used poorly.

"...and/or..."

How do you pronounce a "forward slash" symbol? I kinda need to work that into a bit of dialogue because I didn't want to try to use "words" to write stuffs.

IOW - Don't you dare to get lazy as a writer! ;)

I can be lazy on this forum because nobody here is paying me to write my garbage. You want to get paid, right? Or, at least you want to be lauded as the best Fantasy Writer since Jules Verne! No more shortcuts for "words."


"...“We still will,” Violina assured her. Mr. Clanton may have stiffed them on their payment, but that didn’t mean they needed to stand by and watch as their prized back-from-ancient-extinction dreichoden hatchlings were confiscated and cremated by the Law Makers. “We have to.”..."

Narrator got thrown out the window... Perspective? Dunno.

Here's my advice:

Take your initial submission here and rewrite it three different times. Keep each exercise strictly within the bounds of a chosen narrator for that piece.

eg:

1) First-person, past-tense, limited omniscience, perspective limited to main character.

2) Third-person, past-tense, reliable omniscient narrator - No "narrative interpretation" allowed. Write that stuff. :) (Be sure to keep all introspection and internal dialogue past-tense as well.) Pay attention to perspective, limit it physically to the focus character.

3) First-person, past-tense, main character limited omniscience narrator and... break the wall. Break the crap out of it and have the main character talking to the reader. That will make it "gritty" if my suspicions are correct about the story theme. Have fun with it.

There are some other issues, here and there. I find some bits are unnecessarily "wordy" and I don't think you've established a patois or habitual speech enough to warrant some dialogue choices. I also think feel strongly that your "Prologue" is not, in fact, a "Prologue." If you want one, write it out. I am generally against "Flashbacks" because they're too heavily relied upon by new writers. Honestly, most flashbacks should, instead, be what the writer is actually writing about rather than their "story." They're usually more interesting. :)

I didn't read most of it word-for-word. That shouldn't matter. I'm not interested in the "story." I'm only here to critique how it is told. Anything else would be doing you a disservice.

Dialogue, cadence, "beats" and stage-direction: These are all things that require timing and emphasis to get right. For instance, you don't see a lot of dialogue expositions in the middle of a "fight scene" do you? Nope. Why? It interrupts the good stuff.

When you have characters doing things and moving places and are using stage-direction and movement to "set the scene" then.. only just do that when you've got dialogue involved that the reader needs to be paying attention to instead. You know when it's bad in a story when you're reading about characters running all over a room while they're obviously focusing on a conversation. I'm not saying you've done that, here, but you have used stage-direction and physicality that you may want to consider interpreting in different ways. In the above exercises, remove all stage direction and physical connotations of emotion and see if you can communicate those differently. Only as an "exercise" here and there, not for final print. Then, go back and see where you can rewrite some of that into just a couple of words while still projecting what you want to project onto the reader's brain.


On Rooms: Let's talk about "space" for a second. Just a second. :) Since I think you know some stuff and you now know I think that, we can dump the easy junk out the window with the remains of your Narrator.

Can you "build" Mr. Clanton's "room" into something that tells the reader exactly what sort of person Mr. Clanton is? Can you further, by doing that, to make it unnecessary for Mr. Clanton to move dramatically to a large window in the middle of a conversation? Does the lack of that movement change the portrayal of Mr. Clanton for the better? Worse? Build Mr. Clanton's office around Mr. Clanton and make it his personal space that Violina is voluntarily entering into... Perhaps one of danger? Apprehension inducing darkness? A "crooked L-shaped room" that implies deviousness and hidden mysteries? Maybe he's sitting at desk that's too small for him? Seemingly too large, implying that he manipulates rather than bullies?

Places to go:

https://www.writingforums.com

Expect advice, not help. No mercy, no malice. There are other places, but that's a good place to start.

PS: I saw you post an Amazon link. In trying to figure out what it was, and seeing followups, I then see this:

"

. I was thinking that rebranding and trying to go through an agent might be a better route.

Too late. You've already lost anyone the ability to gain First Publishing Rights. GG you... Sorry I'm so harsh, here, but it's true. Don't even think of taking that to some Agent or publisher and "rebranding" it as an original unpublished work. You will end up in court. A real court. With real hungry lawyers. And, it's likely the publisher's search teams will have already noted this before you get called into a conference call with their attorney.

Your book is now "published." It's not "The Martian" either. Your limited bits here and wherever else you may have posted samples don't necessarily count as a First Publishing. But, sticking it up on Amazon certainly does. If you had good advice from experienced people then you would know this. You don't. So, you didn't. Get that advice. (The link above is good for that and they have special sections that are not visible to web-spiders (Google, et al) in order to preserve ALL of your publishing rights.)

Don't pay a bit of attention to what Amazon fan readers have to say if you ever want to do more than just sell books through Amazon e-pubs. That's fine if that's what you want to do and you can actually make a living doing that. But, you won't be likely to ever see anything else you write on a shelf in a bookstore "in print." I'm serious and trying to help - Don't get caught in the ranks of Amazon e-pub "authors" if you ever want anything more than that. Honestly. (Grats on getting some sales there, but... I think you want more than that for yourself and your stories?)


Good luck! Keep writing, always!

That was extraordinary.

Congratz morkonan, that was a splendidly informative write-up.

I'm not into writing but even i had a browse over some of your explanations because of the details being expressed, cheers sir.

Peace,

-Boem-