Why is there no auction house in POE?

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They actually want to see automated shops (working offline), not auction system. Only pricefixers / abusers vote for AH, not buyers.

It's the other way around. Pricefixers & scammers want the current system. Can't pricefix when people can instantly buy your underpriced crap.

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Bababutzemann wrote:

It's the other way around. Pricefixers & scammers want the current system. Can't pricefix when people can instantly buy your underpriced crap.

Auction is NOT about instant buying. In it's core the auction provides period of time to CONTEST for the best price between two or more buyers. And only after that period of time the actual delivery occurs. It is basic concept for this sort of trade. It is NOT just a SHOP, where buyers contest for best price with unlimited time.

This is very important difference. The reason why scammers / fixers want the AH to be implemented is that they can control the price and boost it to the sky by making fake offers to the system. And then just sell item to the best buyer even if the last offer was received from the fake account and/or bot by using regular PMs.

As Chris Wilson already stated in his Manifesto, we don't need another iteration in trade automation.

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Bababutzemann wrote:

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They actually want to see automated shops (working offline), not auction system. Only pricefixers / abusers vote for AH, not buyers.

It's the other way around. Pricefixers & scammers want the current system. Can't pricefix when people can instantly buy your underpriced crap.

They can't buy everything that undercuts the crap they're pricefixing? I thought they were rich though.

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Jadian wrote:

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Bababutzemann wrote:

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They actually want to see automated shops (working offline), not auction system. Only pricefixers / abusers vote for AH, not buyers.

It's the other way around. Price fixers & scammers want the current system. Can't pricefix when people can instantly buy your underpriced crap.

They can't buy everything that undercuts the crap they're pricefixing? I thought they were rich though.

The current system is very good for price fixers and scammers. I see price fixers literally all day, every day, every league. Usually it is obvious, when it is say a Unique. It is a little less obvious when it is currency. This is because price fixing is not done by a single person. It is done in large groups. Like literally hundreds of people and up. It is the reason when ever you are trying to buy anything you need most of the time, several people to several pages of people simply never respond.

An auction house would make buying under priced items easy, and people would not be able to price fix, unless they have a huge enough stock to flood the market, since people would be able to instantly buy what ever they wanted. The Woop system would need to go, because then someone could find out when ever any under priced item is listed and buy it instantly. The benefits however is that gauging the value of items would become a lot easier.

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Jgizle wrote:

An auction house would make buying under priced items easy

in which way it will not be possible?

1. Seller lists the item for 1c to price fix
2. Someone offers 1c
3. Bot (owned by the Seller) offers 2c
4. Someone offers 3c
5. Bot offers 4c
... after 30-60 mins
6. Delivery occurs to the bot
7. Process repeats.

Or even easier. Just remove the item at the very end of the period. Then repeat.

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Bababutzemann wrote:

It's the other way around. Pricefixers & scammers want the current system. Can't pricefix when people can instantly buy your underpriced crap.

Auction is NOT about instant buying. In it's core the auction provides period of time to CONTEST for the best price between two or more buyers. And only after that period of time the actual delivery occurs. It is basic concept for this sort of trade. It is NOT just a SHOP, where buyers contest for best price with unlimited time.

This is very important difference. The reason why scammers / fixers want the AH to be implemented is that they can control the price and boost it to the sky by making fake offers to the system. And then just sell item to the best buyer even if the last offer was received from the fake account and/or bot by using regular PMs.

As Chris Wilson already stated in his Manifesto, we don't need another iteration in trade automation.

In video games an ah means basically amazon, not ebay. It's all instant when its implented. Weird though, basically real life is basically the opposite.

In all honestly an ah doesn't affect boys or fixers, but it is 1⁰⁰⁰⁰⁰⁰⁰x more convenient because sellers don't have to leave maps, buyers don't need to load instances 2x, no player messages.

You could keep the trade website for haggle too. No reason to scrap it.

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Jgizle wrote:

An auction house would make buying under priced items easy

in which way it will not be possible?

1. Seller lists the item for 1c to price fix
2. Someone offers 1c
3. Bot offers 2c
4. Someone offers 3c
5. Bot offers 4c
... after 30-60 mins
6. Delivery occurs
7. Process repeats.

Or even easier. Just remove the item at the very end of the period. Then repeat.

That is not the Auction House people want. The Auction House people want works like this (BTW All games with an Auction House works like this).

1) Seller list the item for 1c to price fix
2) Someone buys the item for 1c cause its obviously under priced
3) Process repeats

An actual Auction House, which Chris Wilson has stated multiple times through the last decade, would not even be worth the time to add into the game. No one would put an item up for auction below value, and the only items worth even putting into an actual Auction House are mirror tier worthy items, which 99% of the community wouldn't even be able to afford, let alone bid on. In a game where every one is looking to pay the lowest amount possible, an Auction House would not work for anything of value the majority of the player base needs.

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roundishcap wrote:

In video games an ah means basically amazon, not ebay. It's all instant when its implented. Weird though, basically real life is basically the opposite.

Escape from Tarkov: Marketplace
ArmA: Civilian / Terrorist / General Shops
Dota 2: Steam Community Market(-place)
EVE Online: Trade Market
and the others.

If some idiot from Blizzard called it "auction" and the system works in both ways as auction and the shop it doesn't mean it's correct term for their trade platform. But I think ppl are not dumb and forcing this topic just because they can misslead the other ones promising the trade heaven in the PoE (mostly sellers) but it's actually bot house. Fortunatelly GGG understands this and won't be fooled or tricked.

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Jgizle wrote:

That is not the Auction House people want. The Auction House people want works like this (BTW All games with an Auction House works like this).

1) Seller list the item for 1c to price fix
2) Someone buys the item for 1c cause its obviously under priced
3) Process repeats

An actual Auction House, which Chris Wilson has stated multiple times through the last decade, would not even be worth the time to add into the game. No one would put an item up for auction below value, and the only items worth even putting into an actual Auction House are mirror tier worthy items, which 99% of the community wouldn't even be able to afford, let alone bid on. In a game where every one is looking to pay the lowest amount possible, an Auction House would not work for anything of value the majority of the player base needs.

First off it is NOT Auction House. It's just online shop or marketplace or store. The problems with the shop / marketplace stay the same: bot automation, easier item aquisition without interacting with the game content, even more penalized non / low traders because of nerfed drop rates, the bigger gap between traders and non/low traders.

It will be very horrible experience for the player who wants just to play the game as it is.

When someone asks AH or the Shop to be introduced, for some reasone he/she doesn't think about drawbacks, about other ppl game experience and the goals of GGG as a commercial company. Chris WIllson clearly manifested why they don't introduce this feature in the game but community keeps knocking in the wall completely ignoring Willson's statements.

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BTW All games with an Auction House works like this

Wrong statement
D3 AH works as a shop and as an auction. Moreover there are specific abuse ways of the AH because for example you can bid 2000000 of the gold and then reject the bid at the very end of the period.

This is very good example how trashy the AH implemented in D3. Solving some minor issues with "instant buying" you bring new more fundamental issues to the game.

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First off it is NOT Auction House.

People don't use "Auction House" to mean an actual "Auction", any popular game with player to player trading call their system an Auction House. Chris Wilson himself even acknowledges this fact, which is why when it is ever brought up in discussion, he has to specifically state he has no problem with an Actual Auction House, with bidding, and a delayed time to receive an item. Simply searching "Popular game" + "Auction House" will also prove this.

Most MMO's have instant buying and selling of items through a shop of some kind, with no bidding. Albion Online, Elder Scrolls Online, Runescape, just to name a few. In fact Runescapes Grand Exchange proves the system, as I previously mentioned before works perfectly fine, and its been going strong for 16 years straight. If you think Poe.Ninja data is anything, you haven't seen RS Grand Exchange data.



If things are done correctly, drop rates are done correctly, there will be no negatives to an instant buy / sell system that requires no player interaction. The reason the Auction House was removed from D3 had nothing to do with the RMAH (real money auction house) aspect of it, and everything to do with how quickly items were able to be obtained in the course of some ones playthrough. This is the same issue that Chris Wilson brings up for not improving trade, pretty much in any aspect at all. However really it is just a cover up to prevent them from having to do a lot of extra work in regards to drop rates, and item weights on modifiers.

Currently the way drop rates work is based on historical data, and expectations of player number count at the start of a new league. GGG makes a projection of how many players they expect to be playing the league, and drop rates are adjusted to account for that many players so that the economy doesn't get flooded with too many T2 and T1 items that players want. Some leagues they set the numbers too high, and thus way too many items are generated and circulated, while others the numbers are set too low. Then depending on the league, sometimes the league mechanic itself messes with things so much, that way more items than expected are being generated. This happened in sentinel for example, while in say Archnemesis the numbers were set too low, because rares could theoretically drop like 30 divines every 20-40 maps if you hit the jackpot.

In runescape however the drop tables are very fine tuned. You can only get things from specific enemies, at specific locations, or in many cases from 1 single activity or location. The highly sought after items for leveling skills, are also easy to make in bulk, buy in bulk, and sell in bulk. You can automatically set buy and sell orders, which automatically get filled over time. The economy is designed so people can buy now, wait till things get cheaper, or risk waiting till things get more expensive because a large portion of the player base are buying the same things. People have the option to sell low, in order to sell quickly, sell at the average price, if their not in a rush, or sell over priced, if they are predicting a price increase due to future content, or player progression.

GGG can do this. They literally have all the data on what we buy the most on a daily basis, what we are trying to sell the most often, and where those things come from. One major problem is GGG diluting the loot pool, filling it with junk no one wants, and GGG removing deterministic farming. There is nothing wrong with deterministic farming. RPG's do it, MMO's do it, anything with loot does it. The mod pool is already diluted enough, some combinations could literally take millions of attempts to get lucky and obtain. The regular loot pool is diluted with useless uniques, useless divination cards, and a ton of loot not even applicable to your class or build.

If GGG does things the correct way, all issues of trading could be fixed for the most part.