Why is there no auction house in POE?

"

trixxar wrote:

"

Deathfairy wrote:

First of i dont know where you getting idea that everyone buys gear instead of crafting. I sure as hell dont. Maybe you do that is 50/50 so far where does everyone comes from. Crafting is one of the best parts of poe, IMHO.

Second of all trade is awful is too generic statement to even respond too. There some specific issues like people not answering for example, that can be discussed.l, and if you i can but trade is awful is not valid argument. And when you start looking at specific cases you can see that ah either does not actually solves them or creates ARGUABLY worse problems.


I have quite powerful character i crafted all my gear minus uniques and shapers ring was my drop. So crafting works just fine for creating end game gear. And you would do well to look into it. It is fun facinating and profitable to craft.

Trade being awful, I thought enough specifics had been stated but Im happy to add more

1 - You can easily end up sending 40 messages to complete a single trade for lower end item, particularly maps or other crafting consumables such as resonators. Anticipating your response - buy high price, or bulk, these work sometimes but not always. You dont always need or can afford a dozen chaotic resonators or T16 maps, sometimes you need one. Buying high doesnt always work as those people have over priced items which sit for weeks, so they will ignore you. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not, it doesnt explain why its necessary.

2 - Will see how the new atlas impacts this, but if your goal is atlas completion you can easily spend more time on buying maps than running them.

3 - Alt tabbing from a game to use a browser is pointlessly clunky and unimmersive.

4 - Most current forms of scams rely on the clunky, person to person trade much like the first MMOs like everquest. Im not saying people shouldnt be careful but its all so unnecessary. Side benefit.


As for crafting, I dont enjoy gambling aspects of games, I'd rather work consistently towards goals than slam items hoping for the best. Resonators are slightly better but still a crapshoot. Give me crafting with certain outcomes that requires steady work and Id craft, but I despise the current RNG that POE likes for crafting. Note, not saying it should be easier, just more certain. Make it harder, but more certain, and Id join in.

Its cool that you like it, some people love Vegas others hate it. I know if you pass a certain threshold its profitable cause you can sell to people like me who loathe it.

None of that makes the current trade system better or more necessary.

Had to buy only few uniques maps this league, and 0 regular map trade required with others players.
Not solving trading issues, there are countless ones, but at least it make one of the most boring part kinda gone and hopefully forever.

1.
A) They have overpriced items in bulk and they ignore you. I am sorry but i call bs. Most people posting overpriced items are very happy to sell especially in bulk.
b) your definition of "overpriced" is messed up by values for single resonators for example. Just because there are 10 people selling 1 resonator for 1c does not mean its price is 1c. Reality is value is 2.5 which you.see from people with more then 10.
C) ah will make this price issue worse, since all low prices will be instantly bought out.
D) i also dont getting singles of resonators is very questionable value to begin with. And most of the time waste serves no purpose.
E) took me long time to buy anything on d3 ah fow low price. You get item no longer avaliable error all the time. There is always lag between reality and your ui. That problem exists even in real life trading and they throw billions of dollars to solve it.
F) good luck competing on speed vs bots.


2. I comleted atlas on ssf multiple times. You dont need to buy maps. But even if it takes you 2 min to buy each map and you buy All maps. It still only 5 hours. I admire you for completing atlas in 5 hours. In any case lets stick to reality.


3. Build in browser in game is not ah. And that is what you asking here for. I personally dissagree but it us semi valid ask.

4. I am not sure what the point you trying to make but at very least human interaction prevents bots from dominating the market. It us needed and intentional. There are other reasons for that but in itself it is not an issue at all.

5. Whatever the rest of about gambling. You can do whatever you like but you generalized you to most people somehow that was the key issue.


P.s. you missed majority of actual trade issues btw.

P.p.s i hate typing on phone. Sorry for massive typos.

"

E) took me long time to buy anything on d3 ah fow low price. You get item no longer avaliable error all the time. There is always lag between reality and your ui. That problem exists even in real life trading and they throw billions of dollars to solve it.

That's a bad implementation of a system on a (at the time)horrible game. You keep going back to Diablo 3 but that's where your argument loses most of its merit.

Diablo 3 didn't fail because of the Auction House. The Auction House just made it abundantly clear how bad Diablo 3's itemization really is. That's why the Auction house sucked in THAT game.

Apparently you had some purchase errors or whatever but that's just some bad programing and was actually fixed pretty fast. I know because I played with the D3 AH for quite a while, because they had actually monetized it (Not something I am suggesting here). But I did make a killing selling loot for actual $ on it while it was up and it took very little effort to do so. Even after they removed the Real Money part, the Auction house wasn't the problem, the problem was always with the game itself.

The thing that made the least sense in that game with regards to the auction house though was why so many people were opposed to it. As if it somehow made the game bad or something. It was clearly a lazy scapegoat for a failed launch on a bad design. It's existence had nothing to do with anyone else's game play.

Now this this is where the self control bit I was talking about comes from... If you didn't like it, you were not forced in anyway to use it. In that game, at that time, there wasn't even a ladder or seasons yet. There was NO PVP at all. So absolutely nothing anyone did or found, or traded for or purchased, affected anyone else's character or game play experience at all whatsoever. Which means most (if not all) of the crying specifically about the auction house in Diablo 3 was about bragging rights. Period. People were mad because somebody could put in a little work or cash and have an item that somebody else maybe could not as easily. So again it was a silly non mechanical and ENTIRELY emotional argument.

That's why using Diablo 3 for this conversation is pointless.

POE's itemization is NOT at all the same as Diablo 3's in anyway. POE's is pretty strong and the skill system makes it so that you are not 100% reliant on gear for progression. So comparing the two games is like comparing Donkey Kong to Fallout.

Because an AH would literally kill the game. There is no example of a game like this that worked well with an AH. Making it easy to search for AND acquire items means the drop rates would have to be drastically reduced. No thanks.

Even greedy Blizzard recognized their failure in the quite profitable AH.

PS4 performance is really bad but bought a doctor card for 83c and a nurse card for 8c on the trading board. Can't imagine going to a website and whisper someone ingame.

1) d3 was only small part of my answer nice of you to ignore the rest.
2) you still fail to back you point that ah was not the problem, outside of d3 sucked argument.
3) no it was not just bad development. You can not keep up up today fast enough when 100s of people are trying to buy cheapest item. And sorry to say I really do know what I am talking about when it comes to coding, and have a hefty salary to back up my opinion.
4) at this point I guess you slow. I posted exactly what I said on why not ah in Poe. And it didn't have one word about d3. And yet you justfying your B's with more B's around d3.
5) you have yet to address any issues pointed out around ah. Your entire time is spent on n saying d3 sucks so d3 doesnot count. Even we agree to this, there be a still no success examples of ah. They all have massive issues. But somehow magically there won't be in Poe.

Most of the AH opponents dont seem to understand some basic economic principles, imagining that bots will become all powerful with unlimited resources somehow.

Look, if there are 100 goldrims for sale, and a price fixer buys them all for 1c and reposts for 10c each, then the next person who sells can do so for 9c. The fixer then has to buy the item at 9c, which is a ridiculous high price, or they get undercut.

So now they are buying goldrims at 9c to maintain control. For how long? You dont need goldrims to play the game, they are mandatory for zero builds. Its not a strategy that can play out longterm.

Similarly, items which are mandatory for certain builds will simply reduce in popularity, the way when Shavs spike in price, fewer LL builds are made. So if youve invested in cornering Shavs, you get screwed.

Fixers take a large risk trying to corner the market, because they dont control supply (unlike real world, say, PharmaBro who cornered certain pills because he controlled supply).

It is VERY difficult to maintain a corner on the market of any commodity for which there is a virtually never ending supply.

All this fearmongering is ridiculous.

Not to break your buble but it already did happen even in Poe with this trade. Forgot the item but dude bought.them out for 100c and sold of for 700. Supply is just not high enough. And it sure as hell happens in wow. I saw, I even did it myself.

So pretty sure you the one not understanding the basics.

"

Phrazz wrote:

"

jtggm1985 wrote:

You realize the part you quoted was stated as my own biased opinion correct? You do realize we have forum based trading through pathofexile.com/trade? That their site and api just run it automatically? And yes, it is designed to be able to buy "everything and anything you want" that is an item, that's why everything is tradeable and chris said as much himself in the Manifesto. And very few, if any, people call everything "bad" on the forums here, but people do have legitimate criticisms about this game.

Only, the API was never meant to be public. It was a compromise. So it seems you interpretations of his views are... Wrong.

What I mean by "forum" trade, is that all posting, searches and offers were being made on the forums, in posts/threads - as we did back in the days. The "release" of the API, was - as said - a compromise.

I think you're misunderstanding for the sake of misunderstanding here.

Yes, every item is tradable. Every item CAN be traded. That does, by no means, mean that everything should be available for you - all the time. THAT'S the key in a trading system. It NEEDS to be limited. Are the current system limiting trade? Yes. Is it good? No. Can it be done better? Yes. But "better" is in this case very subjective. Trade is and should be a tool. It should make the "game better", not "trade easier".

An AH is not the answer.

I never said every item should be available all the time. Supply and demand sorts that out, given drop rates and poe's relatively small playerbase. It's not like every player out of the 200k or so players drops a 6l shavs to put up for sale, and we all know damn well enough that not every player of the 200k is going to have multiple exalted orbs to buy the shavs that do drop. I'm not going to rehash why I state that the API is forum trading, this thread has gone on long enough already, but saying the API was never meant to be public is ignoring history. It was released public. If they didn't want it public there would be no poe.trade (which predates pathofexile.com/trade)or currencycop or poe.ninja etc. The devs here are lazy and using free code to make their game better. Now, there's nothing wrong with being lazy, but when the time comes to fix issues like an unnecessarily bad trade system, game crashing bugs, poor UI, and poor optimization then it's time to get to work.

"

Deathfairy wrote:

snip

He's not explaining reality, he's explaining his biased perception of it. The reality that we know of vis a vis this trade situation, is there is no AH and trade is intentionally clunky, and yet the game is designed (according to Chris Wilson) to pander to players who trade. SSF player input is irrelevant to the subject of trade design because the game wasn't designed with SSF in mind. As to my own biased perception, Chris is making it harder than it should be based on his stated design visions. If you design the game to encourage trading (and at least 80% of gear upgrades in non-SSF endgame players inventories come from trading) and also fundamentally rely on trading to play endgame content, then trade should be easy but not too easy. The problem is finding that balance, and frankly, the balance we have ISN'T the balance so he should try again.[/quote]


He very well describes inherent issues with ah. Which you mostly dismiss or throw some random idea at it, without actually thinking through consequences of this idea.
Your post is full of personal opinions which you represent as facts or majority agreeing with it. Just in this short answer there more then one of some such examples.


I am in like top 10 storm brands builds on Poe ninja right now. More then half of my gear is crafted by me. And yet you pull out some randomly m 80 percent out of thin air.

IMHO the balance is perfectly fine, but yet again you take your opinion that is not and present it as a fact.

P.s.
And alot of glaring ah issues where not even brought up. Just to name a few.
Extremely punishing to mispricing, I personally massively underpriced a lot more items that even attepmts to scam me. Current system you get spamed you know you messed up you have chance that fix. With ah that item is gone... To make it worse this happens alot more to new players.

Ability to by out a single item, right now this is damn near impossible, with ah for 3 ex I can buy all goodrims for inthe market and sell them for 10c.

And these are just a few.

P.p.s.
Majority of the issues people have with trade can be mitigated without ah and with much smaller changes.[/quote]

If you misprice an item, you should sell it at list. I do, and I am far the better for the experience when I learn my 10 exalted ring is worth 30. Just because you can change it, doesn't mean you should.

I never presented my opinion as fact, I fully stated it was my opinion. I can understand your lack of comprehension if english is not your native tongue, but the only three things I presented as fact is that there is no AH, trade is clunky, and SSF affecting discussion of trade implementation is meaningless because the game wasn't designed with it in mind. Those are all true.

As to the 80% figure I listed, of your gear that you state you crafted yourself, how many bases did you farm? Did you trade for the base? The currency you used to craft onto said base? Did you farm every resonator, every fossil? I highly doubt that.

Further, while I personally doubt that a well designed AH would ruin poe because it's itemization is vastly different than any other game on the market, I never asked for an AH, just trade improvements. What you, and Phrazz, and alot of other people don't seem to understand, is that just because someone wants to attempt to fix trade doesn't mean we want an always on AH, we just want the game to run smoothly and trade to perform it's intended function of making an item have value not hindered by lack of response, fraud, scams, and dealing with people's lag-inducing crossrealm garish hideouts.