Blight Statistics: Challenges and Ascendancy Classes

unf**k multistrike and option to turn OFF your badly implemented animation cancelling would probably boost the melee count a few %

also rip necro my favorite for the last few years after this league :(

your shitty forced meta IS killing the game.

can we get a list similar to All Levels, All Blight Leagues (PC) but only showing/starting at levels 40+. this would remove trade/storage alts and the majority of trade bots from being counted. which i have a feeling would drastically change those numbers.

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Exile009 wrote:

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Smear wrote:

This constant gutting of skills is killing their player base. How's all the draconian nerfing working out for you GGG.

Ironically, 'draconian nerfs' is hardly what typifies GGG these days. Quite the opposite. Those days are past, as threads like this one allude to - https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/8mx7pz/old_ggg_vs_new_ggg/

If their numbers are down, it's got nothing to do with nerfing too much. The Necro isn't dominant this league cos all the other classes and ascendancies are incapable, but because one was buffed out the wazoo. Powercreep typifies the game today much more than any nerfs they've handed out. And no, dropping off from the meta is not a nerf - that can happen from other skills being buffed as well, or just new skills being added that're OP to start with.

You might just be the only one here getting this ...

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Melee feeling clunky and bad to play is a separate issue.

In a quant racer game, any ranged skill will beat any close contact skill. Always.

The specific problem with leagues:

--League mechanics typically enforce AND reward high DPS and clearspeed.
--Leagues typically pick one type of combat and then pick one or two builds that already have potential for clearspeed, and that build gets distorted beyond all recognition into a meme, while other skills used by that class get crapped on

How it should work:

--League mechanic designed
--Instead of catering to a particular build or combat type, it has a little something for everyone: quant racer mode for the economists, an untimed fat boss with nasty mods for the tryhards, a tactics tree or build-a-boss UI for the tacticians, and a long-term strategic element for the standard players.
--Give each type of combat or class a little something to help deal with the major league mechanic. Rather than distorting Cyclone to turn it into a mass AOE clear "spelee" channeler, they could have given most melee skills a very small but statistically significant AOE buff and attack speed control buff - one for keeps - using the giant amount of metadata they have on actual clearance by skill used.
--Previous league content should still exist and the league mechanic should still be the main source of its own sustenance! i.e. Monoliths should be the greatest source of splinters, not Vagan. (Though I'm gladder to see him nowadays than ever before, because he does give ya some stuff)


GGG has heaps of analytics and raw data they could use to fine-tune buffs/nerfs to any class in such a way as to reliably produce a %-played-at-level-90 graph to their liking. It can be as specific as "Reduce Raise Spectre xp scaling by 0.625% per level" or as huge and obvious as "Remove TS". If GGG doesn't have the statisticians to do it, I'm almost dead certain Tencent does - they're a huge gambling enterprise as well as a media mogul, so it literally pays to know how tiny pebbles cause big ripples in customer behaviour - and the right approach to the numbers could turn this game from a despised monkey on our backs, to a respectable and exciting e-sport.

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Smear wrote:

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Olympiacoz wrote:

https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#1y

Lol yeah nice league guys

This constant gutting of skills is killing their player base. How's all the draconian nerfing working out for you GGG.

Everyone I knew from 2 years ago are gone. It's the same story for each of them, my builds are destroyed, fuck PoE.

The hallmark of communism reigns in PoE. Work hard for rewards that are taken away. Once you kill or take away people's rewards for all their time and effort, a system or (in this case a game) fails.

Cannot agree with this enough my friend it's totally true, my maxed friends list is literally dried out, no one on in HC. Let's take the mine rework, which is a joke meme and total dogshit; they've ruined many of my favorite skills in order to make something that they made suck "relevant" again(LOL) And I say this when i've made like 15 miners, in HC. Mines were 100% DEAD to me and everyone else post their insane nerf, and they wonder why nobody plays it? Because it's not like traps? LOL! Talk about losing touch of reality.

For some reason GGG thinks everyone wants to just fire up a meta clone warrior square every fucking league and not play what they like and ENJOY playing.


I don't care about meta skill performance i care about the skills i enjoy to play, however I still have to deal with the DMG/HP numbers!

These days as a HC player I can't just choose any skill i enjoy and build around it. I'm FORCED to play these boring dogshit OP skills just because there's nothing else good anymore. Because that makes sense right? And thus and i have to go through all that crap just because they are unable balance the game properly and try to push me to play shit "that's good" but that i hate.

Apparently it really matters to them i play necro or w/e meta instead of bladefall or GC mines etc etc. I could make that boring ass necro and destroy the game easily on self crafted gear and max 1 exalt needed compared to 10 for everything else, but that's 0 fun, I've quit playing HC leagues on alive 96 necro chars that are immortal because the skill is just plain boring. It's that or Ripping intentionally falling asleep behind the wheel in pure boredom.

All this when all they had to do was tune the numbers on skills that they gutted and that nobody play for exactly that reason! Honestly they should fire whoever is in charge of "balance" who is incapable and at the same time has gutted everything but the finest tuned meta skills which has been imba forever. It's obscene.

"

Talkii wrote:

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Maelstromicus wrote:

tl:dr Yes, congratulations GGG, you have completely eliminated any element of free choice from the game.
Why not start future leagues by simply telling us what class & ascendancy we are going to have to play in order to compete with the new mechanic?

I remember the good old days when I could choose what build I wanted to try and had some faith that it would still be able to competitively play in a new league. Now I simply know that in order to play end game for a few weeks I have to roll the new Meta or else deal with insta deaths.

It's getting old fast.

tons of builds are quite viable. some of them are beginner friendly, some of them are not. summoners were ALWAYS beginner friendly (srs+spectre before, now any summoner is good), and they were good before the buff. u dont have to go meta. so far i made cyclone, scourge arrow (sometimes i was using TS), guardian summoner (3rd char), and now im playing on my miner.

Perhaps I was a little vague. I wasn't trying to say that other builds weren't viable for general game play and certainly no mention of beginners, but mainly for the league mechanic.

As an example, my first roll this league was another cycloner. I hadn't played one for quite a few leagues, so it was a nice change last league to play one again. So, this league I made my first toon as phys cyclone.

It was enjoyable all the way through to shaper/elder and fun & capable in all "normal" game play. League mechanic though? Useless for the most part. Map Blights he struggled occasionally with those ranged flame towers. Blighted maps? Absolutely pointless.

So, then I rolled a "GGG Approved & Mandatory Build" for this league. Necro Zombie/Skele summoner. This wasn't my first rodeo as a summoner, I've previously had a few Spectre Necro Summoners. However, this time because GGG had decided that this was THE build to play it breezes through the league mechanic. Map Blights = no problem. Blighted Maps = no problem.


This is an example of balancing gone completely wrong, and it's hardly the first time GGG have done it now. Balancing means almost every class/ascendancy/build has an EQUAL chance at doing the content and in particular the LEAGUE MECHANIC.
Balancing DOES NOT MEAN that one or two builds have a 100% chance to do it, but other builds have 25% chances or lower to do it.

This "balancing" that GGG now does every league is, in fact, the entire OPPOSITE of balancing. It is META Forcing.

The new league mechanics in each league are the real tester. If they want to balance the game and give us CHOICE OF WHAT TO PLAY while introducing new league mechanics, then what they should be doing is tweaking skills/classes/ascendancies each time to make sure that ALL builds have an EQUAL chance to doing the NEW MECHANICS. We know from experience that most builds can already do end game with a decent experienced player at the helm, so the existing content is pretty irrelevant in terms of "balancing". If only one or two builds can do the new mechanics, then that is Meta Forcing.

I hope this clarifies.

"

Maelstromicus wrote:

This "balancing" that GGG now does every league is, in fact, the entire OPPOSITE of balancing. It is META Forcing.

The new league mechanics in each league are the real tester. If they want to balance the game and give us CHOICE OF WHAT TO PLAY while introducing new league mechanics, then what they should be doing is tweaking skills/classes/ascendancies each time to make sure that ALL builds have an EQUAL chance to doing the NEW MECHANICS. We know from experience that most builds can already do end game with a decent experienced player at the helm, so the existing content is pretty irrelevant in terms of "balancing". If only one or two builds can do the new mechanics, then that is Meta Forcing.

I hope this clarifies.

It would probably have been doable just fine if they didnt outright refuse to nerf the fkin fire hellion buttblasters that makes it impossible to reasonably play anything else for it than ranged. But heyyy only HC players have to worry about that right?? It's pathetic.

You could say they forced meta intentionally or not. They've been doing it for a while now anyway. Very SMART choice of them to just "buff" melee but then literally not allow ppl to play it.

"

Maelstromicus wrote:

"

Talkii wrote:

"

Maelstromicus wrote:

tl:dr Yes, congratulations GGG, you have completely eliminated any element of free choice from the game.
Why not start future leagues by simply telling us what class & ascendancy we are going to have to play in order to compete with the new mechanic?

I remember the good old days when I could choose what build I wanted to try and had some faith that it would still be able to competitively play in a new league. Now I simply know that in order to play end game for a few weeks I have to roll the new Meta or else deal with insta deaths.

It's getting old fast.

tons of builds are quite viable. some of them are beginner friendly, some of them are not. summoners were ALWAYS beginner friendly (srs+spectre before, now any summoner is good), and they were good before the buff. u dont have to go meta. so far i made cyclone, scourge arrow (sometimes i was using TS), guardian summoner (3rd char), and now im playing on my miner.

Perhaps I was a little vague. I wasn't trying to say that other builds weren't viable for general game play and certainly no mention of beginners, but mainly for the league mechanic.

As an example, my first roll this league was another cycloner. I hadn't played one for quite a few leagues, so it was a nice change last league to play one again. So, this league I made my first toon as phys cyclone.

It was enjoyable all the way through to shaper/elder and fun & capable in all "normal" game play. League mechanic though? Useless for the most part. Map Blights he struggled occasionally with those ranged flame towers. Blighted maps? Absolutely pointless.

So, then I rolled a "GGG Approved & Mandatory Build" for this league. Necro Zombie/Skele summoner. This wasn't my first rodeo as a summoner, I've previously had a few Spectre Necro Summoners. However, this time because GGG had decided that this was THE build to play it breezes through the league mechanic. Map Blights = no problem. Blighted Maps = no problem.


This is an example of balancing gone completely wrong, and it's hardly the first time GGG have done it now. Balancing means almost every class/ascendancy/build has an EQUAL chance at doing the content and in particular the LEAGUE MECHANIC.
Balancing DOES NOT MEAN that one or two builds have a 100% chance to do it, but other builds have 25% chances or lower to do it.

This "balancing" that GGG now does every league is, in fact, the entire OPPOSITE of balancing. It is META Forcing.

The new league mechanics in each league are the real tester. If they want to balance the game and give us CHOICE OF WHAT TO PLAY while introducing new league mechanics, then what they should be doing is tweaking skills/classes/ascendancies each time to make sure that ALL builds have an EQUAL chance to doing the NEW MECHANICS. We know from experience that most builds can already do end game with a decent experienced player at the helm, so the existing content is pretty irrelevant in terms of "balancing". If only one or two builds can do the new mechanics, then that is Meta Forcing.

I hope this clarifies.

obviously, some skills are trash, but i wouldnt say only necro can do blight maps. im pretty sure quite a few build can do it (basicly any skill is fine if u got range + can defend 2-3 line at once (aka u got good aoe), u are good to go, actually icicle mine is sick for blighted maps)

"

Olympiacoz wrote:

"

Smear wrote:

"

Olympiacoz wrote:

https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#1y

Lol yeah nice league guys

This constant gutting of skills is killing their player base. How's all the draconian nerfing working out for you GGG.

Everyone I knew from 2 years ago are gone. It's the same story for each of them, my builds are destroyed, fuck PoE.

The hallmark of communism reigns in PoE. Work hard for rewards that are taken away. Once you kill or take away people's rewards for all their time and effort, a system or (in this case a game) fails.

Cannot agree with this enough my friend it's totally true, my maxed friends list is literally dried out, no one on in HC. Let's take the mine rework, which is a joke meme and total dogshit; they've ruined many of my favorite skills in order to make something that they made suck "relevant" again(LOL) And I say this when i've made like 15 miners, in HC. Mines were 100% DEAD to me and everyone else post their insane nerf, and they wonder why nobody plays it? Because it's not like traps? LOL! Talk about losing touch of reality.

For some reason GGG thinks everyone wants to just fire up a meta clone warrior square every fucking league and not play what they like and ENJOY playing.


I don't care about meta skill performance i care about the skills i enjoy to play, however I still have to deal with the DMG/HP numbers!

These days as a HC player I can't just choose any skill i enjoy and build around it. I'm FORCED to play these boring dogshit OP skills just because there's nothing else good anymore. Because that makes sense right? And thus and i have to go through all that crap just because they are unable balance the game properly and try to push me to play shit "that's good" but that i hate.

Apparently it really matters to them i play necro or w/e meta instead of bladefall or GC mines etc etc. I could make that boring ass necro and destroy the game easily on self crafted gear and max 1 exalt needed compared to 10 for everything else, but that's 0 fun, I've quit playing HC leagues on alive 96 necro chars that are immortal because the skill is just plain boring. It's that or Ripping intentionally falling asleep behind the wheel in pure boredom.

All this when all they had to do was tune the numbers on skills that they gutted and that nobody play for exactly that reason! Honestly they should fire whoever is in charge of "balance" who is incapable and at the same time has gutted everything but the finest tuned meta skills which has been imba forever. It's obscene.

interesting, i still think mine is op af, dps wise, but now u cant play with tabula + 2* white dagger/wand.

"

crunkatog wrote:

--League mechanics typically enforce AND reward high DPS and clearspeed.
--Leagues typically pick one type of combat and then pick one or two builds that already have potential for clearspeed, and that build gets distorted beyond all recognition into a meme, while other skills used by that class get crapped on

Not all leagues were like that.

Bestiary at start punished you for high dps (and people hated it).

Delve originally promoted building tanky self sustain characters (not this dodge everything 200 es CI raiders as we have now).

Betrayal revolved around killing mini-bosses to unlock the big boss, transport and research were a bit of a "time race" but the biggest fight was against the unique syndicate members.

Synethis promoted high movespeed mobility characters (sometimes decay would still screw you up but high mobility and jump skills helped) and biggest rewards were from "find a chest and click" or "kill the boss".

It's this 2 recent leagues that narrowly cater to being able to kill 3 screens worth of mobs in mere seconds.

Legions? Good luck opening a full monolith with a low aoe, low movespeed no prolif build. The only reason the gap between Slayer and "next best" wasn't so big as it is now with Necro vs everything else is that people made ES/Contagion Tricksters "alts" just to be able to speed clear monoliths to funnel medals to their main (usually cyclone Slayer) to clear the timeless conflict.

Blight? Good luck clearing mobs coming at you from 4 different directions as low mobility, low aoe, melee build... See a pattern?

WTB 3.9 that isn't another glorified Breach league where "clearing mobs as fast as possible as far away from you as possible" is the meta.

Oh wait who am I kidding, it's planned to be the "bow league" so the only playable skills are gonna be tornado shot, scourge arrow, and whatever new OP skill they'll implement, and off-screening mobs will be the necessary component to succeed.

"

Talkii wrote:

interesting, i still think mine is op af, dps wise, but now u cant play with tabula + 2* white dagger/wand.

So you think if one build needs 10ex+ to do the same as another build does with a tabula and levelling gear that a good state of skill / ascendancy balance? Especially in the light of GGG nerfing every skill that could work on low budget in the past? (Herald of Agony, Storm Brand, Bane, etc.)

"

Viktranka wrote:

"

crunkatog wrote:

--League mechanics typically enforce AND reward high DPS and clearspeed.
--Leagues typically pick one type of combat and then pick one or two builds that already have potential for clearspeed, and that build gets distorted beyond all recognition into a meme, while other skills used by that class get crapped on

Not all leagues were like that.

Bestiary at start punished you for high dps (and people hated it).

Delve originally promoted building tanky self sustain characters (not this dodge everything 200 es CI raiders as we have now).

Betrayal revolved around killing mini-bosses to unlock the big boss, transport and research were a bit of a "time race" but the biggest fight was against the unique syndicate members.

Synethis promoted high movespeed mobility characters (sometimes decay would still screw you up but high mobility and jump skills helped) and biggest rewards were from "find a chest and click" or "kill the boss".

It's this 2 recent leagues that narrowly cater to being able to kill 3 screens worth of mobs in mere seconds.

Legions? Good luck opening a full monolith with a low aoe, low movespeed no prolif build. The only reason the gap between Slayer and "next best" wasn't so big as it is now with Necro vs everything else is that people made ES/Contagion Tricksters "alts" just to be able to speed clear monoliths to funnel medals to their main (usually cyclone Slayer) to clear the timeless conflict.

Blight? Good luck clearing mobs coming at you from 4 different directions as low mobility, low aoe, melee build... See a pattern?

WTB 3.9 that isn't another glorified Breach league where "clearing mobs as fast as possible as far away from you as possible" is the meta.

Oh wait who am I kidding, it's planned to be the "bow league" so the only playable skills are gonna be tornado shot, scourge arrow, and whatever new OP skill they'll implement, and off-screening mobs will be the necessary component to succeed.

"

Talkii wrote:

interesting, i still think mine is op af, dps wise, but now u cant play with tabula + 2* white dagger/wand.

So you think if one build needs 10ex+ to do the same as another build does with a tabula and levelling gear that a good state of skill / ascendancy balance? Especially in the light of GGG nerfing every skill that could work on low budget in the past? (Herald of Agony, Storm Brand, Bane, etc.)

nerfing overpowered stuff is fine. thats some kind of balance aswell. few chaos builds shouldnt be able to clear t16s, shaper and so on. thats why its called ENDGAME. tabula, white weapons, 10c toons arent endgame in my eyes. its already a lot easier now to get to endgame tho, i remember when even t5+ maps were very rare, and even getting 90 was a pain on t1-2-3 maps (also like 90% slower clear compared to current)