Ranged blight monsters are very dangerous
" Well what can I tell you, maybe there is no exact moment of fire barrage in the videos but I'm telling you it's not an issue. Can I die if i'm not careful or they catch me off guard? Yeah, happened a FEW times. But that's it. This char has 8-9K Molten Shell and 28-30 Vaal Molten Shell buffer and you literary can't die even when tanking full barrage (which i try not to do because I don't want to waste large portion of the buff on that). So, I move perpendicular to the barrage or at angle to approach the fire mob. Melee defenses are fine, people are not investing into them because everyone is just looking at dps or they play very badly. There are plenty of videos where you can see insane tanking of this Pathfinder, you don't have to see EXACT fire barrage tank to get the idea. Fire barrage is not the worst thing in the game. Are fire mobs dangerous? Yes they are. Can melee handle them? Very much so. Armour, block, dodge, life, fortify scaling, blind, damage taken reductions... There are plenty of defense mechanics, but no one cares... In the end, OP was talking about dying every single time from fire monsters which is a unknown thing to me. Last edited by TorsteinTheFallen#1295 on Nov 18, 2019, 3:15:42 PM
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" Not very much so. There are instances where you can tank a barrage of fire projectile, alright. It does not mean that it's something that melee can easily handle and that there cannot be a problem though. As a HC player, I would never freaking try to tank those things. It's a good thing to have scary mechanism for sure, but I am a ranged character ... as a melee ? No, just no. You are not a melee character, you can easily dodge everything and you are fast. Put that on a cycloner now though, it's going to be harder to dodge those I tell you. One big problem about this comes (yet again) from screen clutter, it's pretty much impossible to see how many mobs are in there and how many projectiles are going to come to your face. Adding insult to injury, the multi projectile map mods brings it to a whole different level, it's really stupid honestly. This league, it's the mod that I have been avoiding the most, by far, I often reroll it if there are other damage mods with it. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" If you want to play true melee and survive you have to make adequate build. Cyclone one the other hand is one of the safest "melee" skills in the game because you are constantly moving. Even bows stop to shoot, not Cyclone. Cyclone (especially with Slayer) is by far the easiest attack skill I farmed UE with and also realized how people farm with Slayer UE on day 2 (even pre Legion). Cyclone... No one said you have to stand and tank. I avoid doing that even in SC. Melee requires also some reflexes and movement skills which players are lacking of or they are simply too lazy so they stand and hold attack button until they are dead. I can bet this second thing is the most common. Screen clutter also doesn't help and it's thru the roof in Blight. I played rly a lot of different builds and skills and from my point of view melee is tankier than ever. People just don't make it tanky or they have no idea what tanky is or how to make it. Everyone is chasing those dps numbers. Under 2mil dps, garbage build in the eyes of many. And on the other hand we have prob over 50% of players who doesn't make it to the maps but still come here and whine with 0 knowledge of the game. Same percentage prob don't know how to proc Fortify with movement skill or what it does it the first place (my best friend right there). In Legion league Nebuloch Jugg was No1 Delve pushing build and still is one of the tankiest builds in the game. I talked today with a dude that has problem with killing Shaper so he made his melee "all in" tank glad. Summary, 60% block (so not max block glad), 5K life, tree all over the place and under 100k Shaper dps. He is beginner so he's forgiven, we'll all been there. But whole this thread started by OP claiming he dies on every encounter with fire barrage mob and league is crap for melee. Cmon... Tell that to Mathil playing every non meta skill melee or other and destroying the game. Maybe for some people melee doesn't sit right, but i'm just not buying the story how it's garbage like most think or melee in general is the problem op dies. PS In Legion when Slayer was in it's prime, I made super duper damage ele hit bow char. Long story short, I died more than with Cyclone by far. PPS Take the damn Assassin atm, go melee and easily cap the dodge on both attack and spells and be immune to crit. You can not fking die from fire barrage unless you are blind as a bat and have reflexes of a sloth. Last edited by TorsteinTheFallen#1295 on Nov 18, 2019, 8:39:47 PM
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" I have been playing mostly melee in SSF HC leagues for a little while now, I don't think that you realize what it means and implies. I do. " Its range has been nerfed, you need to get close to those range mobs now. Of course it's easier than stuff like heavy strike / dual strike, of course it's still good, but when it comes to those absurd damage spikes that we are talking about ( in this thread ), having a ranged character is much, much, much safer. Farming a boss with known pattern and get into shotgunning range of extremely deadly mobs is a different story. Hey, somebody killed UE at level 36, then dealing those Blight fire monsters should be no problem for anybody over level 36, right ? /s I hope you see how irrelevant you mentioning UElder can be. " What do you mena you avoid doing that even in SC ? You have never gone beyond level 60 in HC ... Melee overall is garbage compared to range characters and summoners. It can do stuff because of all the power creep we have, but it's riskier, slower and more expensive to build. The only place where melee 'shines' is in deep Delves, that's pretty much it and it's usually only Juggs/Guardians and some Gladiators. " Even during a cyclone league, you likely were doing something wrong then, elemental hit absolutely obliterates everything ( with bows ) when min maxed, and it was the same in Legion. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Nov 18, 2019, 8:46:59 PM
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" Ok Fruz, we have different perception of things and that's fine. Not gonna argue endlessly. Ill still play melee and won't feel gimped. You will say it's shit and so be it. Btw I accented "even in SC" because i'm not playing HC. |
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As long as you don't pretend that potentially shotgunning and partly hidden in the screen clutter deadly monsters are not dangerous, there is no problem.
Blight is unfriendly enough to melee characters, no need to have such a stupid mechanic in there. If GGG wanted to threaten range characters, that was not the move, I don't understand why there aren't more monsters with "far-shot" projectiles instead ... or projectiles thrown with a curve that have a minimum range distance instead. I said that melee was shit compared to range and minion archetypes, again. I've likely been playing melee much more than you, I had 3 glacial hammer characters during Synthesis + Legion, 3 high level earthquakers, and many others. ( I deleted a bunch of them because I had no more space ). " Fair enough SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Nov 18, 2019, 9:02:36 PM
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" His point pretty much stands on its own merrits. 1) melee is more difficult then ranged (no mechanics are excluded from ranged characters while melee has to cope with more adverse mechanics in the game) 2) AOE projectile overlap is an "easy cop-out" design that far more harshly impacts a melee play-style then a ranged one. Blight isn't even relevant, these two arguments hold up in any design debate of whichever league you fancy. Peace, -Boem- Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes
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" " You both are needlessly tedious for some reason. I literary wrote "fire mobs can be dangerous" few posts ago. "1) melee is more difficult then ranged (no mechanics are excluded from ranged characters while melee has to cope with more adverse mechanics in the game)" They literary are, by being in melee range of the most bosses they will use default attack instead of casting spells. "I said that melee was shit compared to range and minion archetypes, again." Is there anything else? Melee, ranged and summoners? We are far from the thread topic. Dying on every fire mob like op claims, is not a melee problem. Ill just leave it on that. I love talking to you guys but let's agree to disagree. :) Last edited by TorsteinTheFallen#1295 on Nov 18, 2019, 9:21:05 PM
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" No, that's the point ( well you could consider RF too but that's kinda irrelevant ). Melee isn't shit compared to everything 5 years ago maybe as the power creep is getting to absurd levels, but relatively to ranged characters and summoners, it's crap at the moment. It can beat the content, a melee character can be "good", can feel powerful, but : - it is more expensive - it is less safe ( which does not have to be something inherent to mele characters necessarily ) - it is slower. "Melee is shit" isn't the same statement than "Melee is shit compared to [...]" Don't make me say what I did not say. " I can agree with that. The OP raised an interesting and valid concern though. Where many posts about somebody dying on a non-optimized characters can be dismissed, I do think that those fire mobs here are a problem and should be adjusted. It's good to have dangerous mechanics, but shotgunning is a problem, and the screen clutter does not allow to properly have such packs of monsters as you cannot seem them and it's often hard to even know how many projectiles are coming your way. One of the OP's concern was also the impact on game performances ( server of client-side, I guess both can be affected in this case ? ) SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Last edited by Fruz#6137 on Nov 18, 2019, 9:35:07 PM
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It's often impossible to tell how many projectiles are coming your way due to the stacking bug.
In the bug report topic someone submitted several posts of vid clips of HC streamers (who supposedly know how to play the game and aren't running characters on Hardcore with terrible defense?) dying instantly to the mechanic (bug). Many are not melee and this is definitely not a melee-only issue. In fact, zoom zoom melee builds (like TorsteinTheFallen's poison pathfinder) might even be at an advantage vs this mechanic due to how they dart in, instantly kill all mobs and dart out. The mobs don't have a chance to fire their projectiles or even stack up in the first place. :| Regardless of a player's build, how well the player might be able to accommodate the mechanic, or the skill level of the player, the mechanic (bug) shouldn't exist in the first place. The developers could introduce a new mechanic where a button appears on the player's screen every minute-ish. If the player does not press the button within 2 seconds of appearing their character takes some random unblockable/undodgeable/unmitigateable/unresistable/etc damage (from 3k to 7k). Some players won't have a problem pressing the button within 2 seconds. Some players would build builds with huge ehp pools to be able to absorb the damage when it occurs. But regardless of how players are able to deal with it ... it would still be a terrible mechanic. So, yes, this stacking fireball mechanic can be worked around: better defense, better build, better playstyle (gitgudnub!)... but it's still a bad mechanic (bug). :| |
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