Check out the Saboteur Ascendancy in Path of Exile: Blight

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ncoffey4 wrote:

I don't get the complaints. If all you were playing Sabo for was the regen, maybe you were doing it wrong. Other classes do regen better. Sabo seems fine to me and could potentially be busted if the new mine mechanic ends up being OP.

It kinda feels you answered your own question here.

Other classes do have better or closer on the tree sustain and life regen mechanics. Wich is mainly why the 50% cut down regen of the sabo is such a problem.

First point is most of the mine builds get those one-shot pokes, with basically either you invest into evasion ( wich isn't a allround safe and still gets a lot of random wether youll survive) or you trade off the damage and move to get as much HP as you can.

Do keep in mind that all the lifesteal and ES steal nodes nearby shadow don't give litteraly nothing as mines and traps don't leech anything.

Those % regens of traps and mines never were the point picking the ascendancy and mostly were taken as "at least something to boost the odds of surviving a heavy strike in the face"

There are a ton of videos of mines one-shotting bosses or instant-phasing them. The fact that mines are ranged now is added safety. You should get hit far less often than before.

I just think people should hold criticism until they see the whole picture. The entire mine mechanic was changed. Can't really judge it based only on the Ascendancy rework.

Also funny to see people on here talk about how Summoners got some kind of insane buff, but most people in the necro thread are complaining about massive nerfs to the Ascendancy and how it is dead now. Grass is always greener and such.

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ncoffey4 wrote:

There are a ton of videos of mines one-shotting bosses or instant-phasing them. The fact that mines are ranged now is added safety. You should get hit far less often than before.

The problem isn't the damage output. I'm well aware of that thing and feel that mines may have gotten a bit over buffed in a way.

The point was that % regen was used as "instead of life leech" due to how mines and traps work + where all the HP/Armor/ES nodes are on the tree.

Mind you I never said that it's a major issue. The limit of mines was increased, the new gloves, simmilar mechanics and in a way the same nodes for both traps and mines fairly compensate that cut down.

It's just more buttons to be pressed, wich is fine by me.

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Kurgosh wrote:

Wow. Massive nerf to sabo right after a league in which we were less than 1% of characters played. That's unexpected.

Edit - Seriously, I don't understand. Three of the least played ascendancies get changed. One gets a huge buff to be the meta choice for the league, one gets some pretty unimpressive changes, and then one gets a huge nerf. Why? It was already out of the meta.

I wouldn't say huge nerf. A nerf, yes. Huge? no.

10% regeneration is still respectable. 20% was always absurd, everyone knew this and didn't complain since rest of the tree was decent. Nothing was to crazy after the trap changes and lack of mine changes. If you don't think this then you're one of the few.

If anything this is probably a stealth nerf to traps. With the massive QoL changes to mines and some of the mechanics being added, Mines are pretty much Traps 2.0. The changes to the Mine path are HUGE. Free hinder is just nice and always useful. I wouldn't write off saboteur out just yet, without knowing changes to passive tree and the rest of the stuff not teased yet.

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Kurgosh wrote:

Wow. Massive nerf to sabo right after a league in which we were less than 1% of characters played. That's unexpected.

Edit - Seriously, I don't understand. Three of the least played ascendancies get changed. One gets a huge buff to be the meta choice for the league, one gets some pretty unimpressive changes, and then one gets a huge nerf. Why? It was already out of the meta.

What 'massive nerf'? You got your regen cut in half, but you also got 8% more damage reduction. I'll take that tradeoff - unless the mine mana reservation on Pyromaniac feels mandatory, I'm gonna switch it out for Explosives Expert and live with that sweet 18% damage reduction (other 10% from Born in the Shadows). I'd rather survive 1-hits than be able to regen faster from non 1-hits, and you can still get some decent regen just on the tree/gear if you want (in addition to the new leech gloves).

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Nizreb915 wrote:

Nerfy. No worries, nothing will stop saboteurs from being killed with one shot.

Umm...18% damage reduction is almost the highest any ascendancy gets. Only a couple others beat it with 20%. And there's the Blind as well. If anything, he's even less likely to be 1-shot now (that regen only helps you recover from big hits, not survive them).

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GoldDragon32 wrote:

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Hmmm... Lots of defensive stuff. Hmmm... At first look it seems bad, but the more you think about it, you come to realize that Miners are usually squishy AF, and this allows them to take all that sweet damage while also not being made of paper. Overall not bad, but still not something I'd play.

Am I looking at the same preview as you? The only defensive things I see are Born in Shadow's Blind effects, which I can't see any changes from the current Saboteur, and the Regen on Pyromaniac, which is eating a brutal 50% nerf.... ????

Look at Explosives Expert. And, for what it's worth, Hinder on mines.

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xMustard wrote:

this looks bad for any mine build which won't use the mines that have built in aura effects.

True, though there only appears to be one option for mines that doesn't have an aura effect, blastchain mine. It does have "5% more damage for each mine detonated in sequence.", but based on the wording I don't think that's an aura effect. Every other mine skill/support has an aura effect attached as far as I'm aware though. I guess that's more of an option for people who want to play mines but don't wanna go saboteur.

clear mind is gone. you'll be reserving most mana in boss fights so you'll dig into MoM if you took it. Regen is halved.

on the other hand, 23 mines but will you be able to plant them before you get one shot?

I've been planning on going mines as my first character in 3.8 since I saw the reveal video for the new mine skills, I don't have any strong feelings about the saboteur changes/nerfs cause I've never played the ascendancy before, I was never interested in traps or mines just for thematic reasons (I feel similarly about summoners, just arbitrarily not interested, nothing wrong with them though), but the video changed my mind for mines at least.

I think people are losing their minds over the regen nerf a little too much, I agree with Exile009, sure regen was nerfed but you can get an additional 8% reduced damage taken compared to before, which in path of one shots is arguably more valuable. You have 0% regen if you're dead. There's also new gloves now that can give you some leech, and also 40% hinder on mines for what that's worth. At worst, Saboteur got a defensive side-grade or SLIGHT nerf imo.

On the plus side though, 100% increased effect of auras from mines? That's pretty nutty, we already know the specifics for some of that. With passives and the minefield support you can get 23 mines out at one time. You can get even more with items, but lets work with 23.

Stormblast mine gives "a stacking aura that increases the damage nearby enemies take by 3%." That's an aura that increases the damage enemies take by 138% at 23 mines.

Icicle Mine "has a stacking aura that increases critical chance for hits against enemies around it by 10%". 460% increased critical strike chance at 23 mines.

I'm not sure if the Blastchain Mine Support "5% more damage for each mine detonated in sequence." is an aura, but if it is that's 220% more damage (though, from the wording it sounds like the damage goes up for each mine one after the other, so only the final mine to explode would be 220%, presuming the first mine starts at 0% more). That's an average of 110% more damage.

We don't have the numbers for the others, but Pyroclast Mine will get heaps of additional flat fire damage, and high-impact mine will get heaps of chance to deal double damage.

If skitterbros reliably shock and chill enemies, it seems Pyroclast Mine will be the most straight-forward way to get full value out of the new Explosives Expert. It's a pretty juicy node all round, offensively and defensively.

I am keen for Saboteur. If you don't like it then play something else. I think you should try it before you slam it though.