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So why should it scale damage and not attack speed? The reason for this is that you want the skill to be ideal for fast attacking weapons and the characters that use them. The problem is that those people already have skill nodes invested in attack speed and use fast weapons so giving more attack speed is diminishing returns; the biggest beneficiaries of increased attack speed will be those who don't have much or any of it via skill nodes and use slow weapons. What you have now is a skill that is thematically appealing to Fast Attacking Dexterity-based and likely Dual Wielding characters, but mathematically appealing to Strength-based slow hitting and likely 2H or 1H+Shield (particularly because of the vulnerability of a Cycloning toon) character. It is astonishing how many games do not back up their themes with actual mechanics that mathematically support the theme they are representing.
Um...what? Have you ever done math involving attack speed before? 1% attack speed and 1% damage are identical no matter what. Go do the math with any number of weapons and speeds. It might not seem that intuitive. But I assure you it is...I spent a silly amount of time right before D3 came out (ugh) working numbers on skills and weapons. The only time speed and damage are not equal is when you take flat numbers into account.
For instance, if you add 10 damage, it's better on a fast weapon...that's mostly it though. I wonder about the cruel reward of 12% Physical damage at 6% attack speed though. I suppose its a way to boost physical and 6% flat damage would kinda be lame.
As for Cyclone itself...i'm not sure what it is intended to be honestly. As a main AoE attack it is simply not strong enough. As movement it is too slow, unwieldy, expensive, and limited. You can't stop once you start, you can't jump ledges like leap slam (though it does do more damage than this I think), and it gets you there slower than LS.
My best thought for this skill is as a combat support skill. Used to reposition in combat like Leap Slam, however it will impart decentish damage while doing it. I still think that if that's the case it's just not a worthwhile skill outside of "being cool."
Leap slam, properly gemmed, does tons more damage than Cyclone.
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Posted byKalsiferon Mar 13, 2013, 12:47:53 AM
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new builds designed to work specifically with Cyclone.
What build is that?
From what I understood Cyclone was meant to provide survivability & 360 degree AoE damage for ALL melee glasses.
With my gear and build I am extremely disappointed at the power of Cyclone.
Yes, I get Cyclone but right now other classes get so much more for damage that is absolutely not gear dependent.
I see EK people running out and farming Maps & Docks with absolutely no effort and one shot everything in 4 - 6-man groups.
I even changed the colours on my chest to give Cyclone a serious try and it does so little damage the AoE is just too small for an AoE skill even with the +2 melee range passive.
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Posted bymrmisterwaaon Mar 13, 2013, 12:49:00 AM
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The fact that you simply have a FIXED movement distance which is far too much is what really hurts it, more than anything.
Not sure how much time you spent with the gem but the skill attack distance is not fixed.
The end point of the attack is the position where you clicked your mouse.
Apologies in advance if I've misunderstood your point.
OB: BazzVone - 83 Dual Spork Totem Templar /w CI and minions
CB: BazzVfourteen - 80 Dual Spork Totem Templar /w CI
CB: BazzVtwo - 73 Dual Spork Totem/LS Templar
CB: BazzVseven - 76 Lightning Strike Mara
CB: BazzVfive - 78 Lightning Strike Mara
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Posted byBazzV5on Mar 13, 2013, 12:49:11 AMAlpha Member
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The fact that you simply have a FIXED movement distance which is far too much is what really hurts it, more than anything.
Not sure how much time you spent with the gem but the skill attack distance is not fixed.
The end point of the attack is the position where you clicked your mouse.
Apologies in advance if I've misunderstood your point.
(I believe) He means the minimum fixed movement distance.
There is a minimum you have to click away from your toon before you can use the skill.
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Posted bycolexianon Mar 13, 2013, 12:53:29 AM
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The fact that you simply have a FIXED movement distance which is far too much is what really hurts it, more than anything.
Not sure how much time you spent with the gem but the skill attack distance is not fixed.
The end point of the attack is the position where you clicked your mouse.
Apologies in advance if I've misunderstood your point.
(I believe) He means the minimum fixed movement distance.
There is a minimum you have to click away from your toon before you can use the skill.
You can click closer, but it moves you further than you clicked in that direction.
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Posted byPyrosEienon Mar 13, 2013, 12:55:33 AM
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The fact that you simply have a FIXED movement distance which is far too much is what really hurts it, more than anything.
Not sure how much time you spent with the gem but the skill attack distance is not fixed.
The end point of the attack is the position where you clicked your mouse.
Apologies in advance if I've misunderstood your point.
(I believe) He means the minimum fixed movement distance.
There is a minimum you have to click away from your toon before you can use the skill.
Actually even if you click directly on top of your character you will still cyclone halfway across the screen. It is absolutely ridiculous.
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Posted byKillurselfon Mar 13, 2013, 12:57:09 AM
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So why should it scale damage and not attack speed? The reason for this is that you want the skill to be ideal for fast attacking weapons and the characters that use them. The problem is that those people already have skill nodes invested in attack speed and use fast weapons so giving more attack speed is diminishing returns; the biggest beneficiaries of increased attack speed will be those who don't have much or any of it via skill nodes and use slow weapons. What you have now is a skill that is thematically appealing to Fast Attacking Dexterity-based and likely Dual Wielding characters, but mathematically appealing to Strength-based slow hitting and likely 2H or 1H+Shield (particularly because of the vulnerability of a Cycloning toon) character. It is astonishing how many games do not back up their themes with actual mechanics that mathematically support the theme they are representing.
Um...what? Have you ever done math involving attack speed before? 1% attack speed and 1% damage are identical no matter what. Go do the math with any number of weapons and speeds. It might not seem
You failed to get was I was saying. I was not saying that damage bonus is better than attack speed bonus, cause it isn't and I know that and why.
What I was saying was that if you already have attack speed bonus then adding more is less of an advantage than adding to something you don't have. If I already have 30% attack speed bonus then 6% added to that is 36% so my attack went from 1.3->1.36 which is a 4.6% improvement in DPS; the point I am making is that if you want to help characters who already have attack speed bonus then you do it by adding damage bonus; adding attack speed bonus is most helpful to toons that don't already have it.
Last edited by Fillmore on Mar 13, 2013, 1:01:20 AM
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Posted byFillmoreon Mar 13, 2013, 1:00:31 AM
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You can click closer, but it moves you further than you clicked in that direction.
Ahhh I see.
Personally I don't recall having experienced an issue with that.
Not saying it doesn't exist but I'm curious as I do recall being able to Cyclone side to side across small passages like those in sewers and submerged passage without a problem.
Small travel distance attacks were fine.
OB: BazzVone - 83 Dual Spork Totem Templar /w CI and minions
CB: BazzVfourteen - 80 Dual Spork Totem Templar /w CI
CB: BazzVtwo - 73 Dual Spork Totem/LS Templar
CB: BazzVseven - 76 Lightning Strike Mara
CB: BazzVfive - 78 Lightning Strike Mara
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Posted byBazzV5on Mar 13, 2013, 1:02:25 AMAlpha Member
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after giving cyclone a second try i really have to say that it in its current state its not playable at all.
the first huge issue i am seeing is the heavy dsynch with the skill. i just died in chamber lvl 2 cycloning thru a huge group of mobs ... i didnt hit at all. after resynch i more or less died to 25+ mobs hitting me.
even in softcore this skill is total garbage.
there is even the same bullshit like with lightning strike, which can hit obstacles instead of the mob although the mob is just in front of you. same with cyclone. you cyclone and suddenly stop. and you do not know wtf is going on and why you stopped. then you wanna continue and just nothing happens. because there is a little rock or something in your way. L O L !!!!!
those few seconds you lose is your death in a map for sure. that skill is not suited for HC AT ALL.
i was so lookin forward to this skill.
but here is something i hate to say, but i have to say it:
GGG, please look at diablo3 and how whirlwind is done there and learn from that. thank you.
Live Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/menthur
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Posted byexorziston Mar 13, 2013, 1:08:13 AM
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bro i hope da superiors r watchin dis
i aint seen dis much fail since d3 launch
dis skill is fucked and der aint no otha way of sayin it
u betta do sometin about it
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Posted byKissTheBladeon Mar 13, 2013, 1:14:49 AM
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