Game of thrones thread go! [ S8 ]

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Exile009 wrote:

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Destructodave wrote:

I honestly feel a little sorry for D & D. They are catching all the blame for GRRM leaving them out to dry. He gave them some plot points, and probably told them he would finish at least another book and have it fleshed out for them to work with, and he hasn't done a damn thing since.

So here they are picking up the pieces of this convoluted mess. We forget they have to slap together these seasons, get them shot/put together/etc in like a year or 2 tops. Meanwhile the guy getting all the praise can't write a book in 8 seasons, because he probably has no idea how to finish it himself.

They could have probably did a better job. But maybe the original writer could have came up with them some more source material to work with; they aren't novel writers.

I know I've read a million places that oh GRRM will fix it when he writes his books. No he wont. He's never gonna finish those books. He damn sure wont write them now that the final season has caught immortal hell and he had a say in how this ended. He's gonna leave it open to interpretation and never finish those books. Hes 70, completely out of shape, and if he can't write a book in like the 8 years they did GoT, he won't finish the series ever.

As much as D&D screwed the pooch a bit this season, I seriously doubt they expected to make it this far with the guy never having another book written for them to pull from. God knows why these 2 seasons were rushed. I dont know the constraints they have, the contractual obligations, etc. But IMO, GRRM deserves some blame in this, too.

"I honestly feel a little sorry for D & D." - I don't. They were meant to be completing the story - GRRM was never gonna have the conclusion out for them to pull on, and they knew that going in. At best it would've made season 6 and maybe (maybe...) a bit of 7 somewhat better, but not 8. 8 especially was always gonna be on them.

But most of all, forget the books. I'm certainly not expecting them to do right by the books. I'm expecting them to do right by their own damn show. To produce a script and story that aligns well with nothing more than just whatever they've shown us so far in the TV series, books be damned. To produce a TV show-worthy storyline. And they haven't done that, especially now.

Remember that the show Game of Thrones was already way simplified compared to the book series it's based on. For example, the books feature another Targaryen character, which the show completely excised. So they've already simplified things, and yet can't deliver.

Actually, even forget a lot of the past narrative of their own show - people are expecting them to at least produce something that makes sense. It says something that random people on Reddit - who almost all wouldn't be writers of any stripe, let alone novelists - are coming up with better storylines than the shows' writers. Yes, those writers aren't novelists, and certainly not of the kind needed to produce a world like Westeros, but they are still writers for TV and/or movies. They are expected to be able to plot sensibly. And now they're being outclassed by rank amateurs, not because the amateurs are great, but because their own product is so bad.

There are even versions of those plots that align with the end result the show showed, and hence with whatever GRRM might have told D&D all those years ago, but plotted to work a lot better. For example, I put forward a re-write of the Night Kings' death in episode 3 that still let Arya get the kill earlier in this thread (second last post on Page 11). I don't know if it was any good, but it was definitely a lot better than her coming flying out of nowhere (unless, for some reason, Bran really needs to still be alive now, which the show has so far not demonstrated, with only one episode left).

Point being that D&D don't have to meet some really lofty expectations of inspired writing worthy of a bestselling series of books. Hell, they might not even need to meet the expectations of writing worthy of a bestselling TV show, although that'd definitely be nice. In many cases, they merely need to meet the expectations of writing that doesn't have more holes than Swiss cheese.

Plus I and others suspect that they're doing it on purpose - abandoning plot sensibility in order to extract as much spectacle and drama as they can wring out of the show. For example, having Dany take her own sweet time burning the suburbs of Kings' Landing in the latest episode in order to show as much human suffering porn as possible, despite that her rage ought to have been directed at Cersei in the Red Keep and hence it'd make the most sense for her to make a beeline for the castle (you can even show her burning the city later if you really want to, but they chose the other way only cos it allowed Cersei time to do her schtick on the balcony instead of quickly running away). The bad plotting isn't merely cos they ran out of material - it's cos they're bad writers and, in other cases, cos they've deliberately chosen not to care.

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鬼殺し wrote:

...It might have been how he planned it before it actually happened and people kicked up a shitstorm about it. Martin will almost certainly not write the ending he originally planned now that The Internet has probably anticipated it and torn it to shreds. Poor bastard. Rich as fuck. Famous. Historically sealed into place as a monument of this era. And utterly powerless to just write what he wants, because chances are it'll never be good enough to satisfy a significant portion of the fanbase.

Or does anyone here actually believe he is having trouble writing his own, only big series?

As for D and D, they knew what they were getting into when they chose to adapt a high profile, incomplete fantasy series.

I only pity the viewers at this point. Yall deserved better.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

[...] nearly all if not all the blame lies with GRRM. Without source material, it was difficult for D&D ti maintain the development that the earlier seasons provided.

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Antigegner wrote:

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DarthSki44 wrote:

[...] nearly all if not all the blame lies with GRRM. Without source material, it was difficult for D&D ti maintain the development that the earlier seasons provided.

- D&D bought an unfinished product.
- D&D knew GRRM was famous for being very slow at writing.
- D&D could and should have foreseen this. They could have planned ahead.
- D&D are professionals and have brains and thus should be able to not fuck it up that badly. If you can't do it yourself, consult people who can.
- GRRM can write as fast or as slow as he likes.

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Of course GRRM can write at his own pace. That doesnt absolve him from any blame, or the majority of it. He gave D&D the major plot summaries, and then his story was out of his hands. The blame is easy to see here.

why is he to blame? Read my previous points again and then tell me why he is to blame.

D&D were in an unwinnable situation by season 5. As I've mentioned previously GoT grew beyond control. It was never going to end to everybody's satisfaction.

they knew what they had gotten themselves into right from the start of season 1. But you are right by indirectly saying they were retards already there ;-)

Also no one wanted to be working on GoT for 15+ years. Actors said it, D&D had other projects on the horizon, the support teams were burned out, ect..if people actually believed this was gonna be another 3 seasons over 5+ more years to "get it right" they are delusional. It was never going to happen.

who u talking to? nobody in this thread said it should go on for X seasons. Most of us just say that season 8 was written by a brain amputated moron who doesn't even get the basics right.

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Antigegner wrote:

lol, there is a change.org petition already :D

https://www.change.org/p/hbo-remake-game-of-thrones-season-8-with-competent-writers

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DarthSki44 wrote:

Of course GRRM can write at his own pace. That doesnt absolve him from any blame, or the majority of it. He gave D&D the major plot summaries, and then his story was out of his hands. The blame is easy to see here.

why is he to blame? Read my previous points again and then tell me why he is to blame.

D&D were in an unwinnable situation by season 5. As I've mentioned previously GoT grew beyond control. It was never going to end to everybody's satisfaction.

they knew what they had gotten themselves into right from the start of season 1. But you are right by indirectly saying they were retards already there ;-)

Also no one wanted to be working on GoT for 15+ years. Actors said it, D&D had other projects on the horizon, the support teams were burned out, ect..if people actually believed this was gonna be another 3 seasons over 5+ more years to "get it right" they are delusional. It was never going to happen.

who u talking to? nobody in this thread said it should go on for X seasons. Most of us just say that season 8 was written by a brain amputated moron who doesn't even get the basics right.