Most of this information we already knew from earlier reveals and the Patch Notes. The most important information, like stats for the Carrion Golem or Feeding Frenzy buff, are not shown on the gems.
What we do learn is that the Carrion Golem has 88% increased life compared to the 68% life of other golems and requires 10 nearby minions to receive its full 80% damage buff. Its 27-41 flat phys damage buff is a little more than half of what Soulwrest grants, or the equivalent of two T2 Ghastly Eye jewel mods. Our minions have high base damage. I'll have to run the math to double-check, but it'll likely only be worth 2-4% more damage. The Golem Commander cluster grants 70% buff effect, or ~2% more. For reference, 10% increased minion damage or 4% increased minion attack/cast speed each give ~2% more damage.
Deathmark is worth 55% more damage against the main target, but is weaker for clear.
Feeding Frenzy is 24% more damage plus the buff which grants 10% more damage and 15% increased attack/cast/move speed (thanks for the details, Rory). That means it's worth (1.24 * 1.1 * 1.075 =) 47% more DPS, and 18% more for all other minions.
Meat Shield is 30% more, so not super great on damage. 29% movement speed is nice. 24% less damage taken with 5% phys reduction (=30% total with tree nodes) and a high 1/5 hits to Taunt (= target deals 10% less damage to other targets, including other minions and more importantly the summoner). Aggressive Feeding Frenzy Zombies sound attractive, but if we're Cycloning on top of enemies then there's an argument for Meat Shield Zombies. At the very least it'd be good for keeping them alive during tough bosses like Uber Elder. Combine with Deathmark?
Elemental Army I talked about in the Patch Notes overview, but it's worth 42% more damage. 4% max res is worth ~16% less elemental damage taken.
Infernal Legion is going to be tricky to scale this up. Like Decay, its 1315 burn doesn't stack. You either want it for clear on a minion that spreads out, like Raging Spirits, or on a singular minion for bosses. In the end, I think this will require a dedicated build and won't see much use outside of leveling, Minion Instability (Earendel's Embrace, Tavukai, Siegebreaker), or ele-immune Golem shenanigans.
Skitterbots reserve 35% mana, the same as Discipline. Meaning we can't use both without heavy reservation investment.
Withering Step has a 3 second cooldown that doesn't start until its buff wears off or you use a skill and lose the buff. You could probably alternate it with Phase Run or another movement skill, but by itself the cooldown is too long to carry the full burden of mobility.
Carrion Golem only adds 41 phys damage to nearby non-golem minions, is that even worth bothering with? Seems quite low as most minions can easily clear over 1K on their own . . .
I went ahead and answered above. =o) In short, it's kinda weak, like most golem buffs. It's like the Flame Golem's 20% damage buff.
The Elementalist can scale golem buffs up by ~500%, but none of the golems used to accomplish that will benefit from it.
Last edited by Hercanic on Sep 5, 2019, 1:40:13 AM
Carrion Golem's Leap Slam has a 4 second cooldown, and doesn't repeat with Multistrike unlike some Spectre leap slams. It deals 180% of their base damage. The Bone Cascade has a 4 second cooldown, can multistrike, has 10% less attack speed and deals 65% of base damage, but can hit enemies multiple times with each cascade. The non-cooldown attack deals 135% of their base damage with the first two swings which are wide cones, while the third to sixth swing deals 162% of base damage with 200% more attack speed, but in a smaller rectangle (For bursting down enemies that survive the first two swings). At level 20 of the gem, they do an average of 372 damage per hit, with an attack time of 0.9 seconds. They have 1067 accuracy rating at gem level 20, the same as other minions.
The no-repeat only applies to the Leap Slam, not their cascade slam, because it was a bit pointless when they jumped on the spot. Stone Golem slams still repeat as usual.
Everything from Multistrike will apply to their leap, but they won't get that second or third repeat damage bonus.
If they did their full 6 hit combo, that'd be two multistrike sequences. Visually, it'd just look like they did their normal sequence, but faster, but the damage would be more loaded towards the rapid final attacks.
Ah, the damage boost Carrion Golems get is from your minions, and the range is 60. Ideally close enough that you don't need to constantly worry about it unless you're using the Meat Shield support on your doods.
Carrion Golems have 11384 life at gem level 20.
[Q: Base average hit for ice golems, 1090, is 3x carrion golem?] That looks correct, because Ice Golems skills have lower damage multipliers by comparison. It's more a artifact of how we tweaked the balance on the minion, and the fact the Carrion Golem gets up to 80% more damage if you have 10 non-golem minions near them.
Carrion Golems have no basic attack, just their comboish non-cooldown attack.
The Leap is only used if the target is more than a certain distance away. It'll have different chances for different abilities based on positioning of all enemies in range, it's not a guaranteed order.
[Q: Will CG interrupt its combo when other skills go off cooldown?] The Carrion Golem's combo attack is much more likely to complete once it gets going, unless the chosen target dies. If the primary target dies it'll likely switch to the cascade if it's available.
A quick test shows that Bone Cascade hits 1-5 times based on position and chance, but larger monsters will be hit by more spikes, similar to Glacial Cascade.
[Q: Skill priority?] The Bone Cascade is usually used in the next few hits every time it's active, unless the melee combo is in the part of the sequence that does high damage and the enemy it was targeting is still alive. Chance still plays a part, they're not fully reliable in their use.
Raise Spectre has a base of two spectres max at level 11, three at 21, and four at 31.
The Delve chest mod can still give +1 to maximum spectres, as do Midnight Bargain and Queen's Escape and Decree.
[Q: Will Spectre level update with gem level up?] We're working on a fix for this that we hope to deploy shortly after release. After the fix, changing the gem level of any minion will re-summon the minion with the new monster level. Until then you'll need to change areas to update the minion level.
[Q: Release minion info on forum?] That's a bit of work for us to get at the moment, and we don't really have that much time! Path of Building is your best bet when that's able to be released, though long term it'd be great to have that in a form we can calculate for you more easily.
Arakaali's Fang spiders do also have the accuracy buff.
Every monster that is inherently a player minion has that higher [80% / 1067 accuracy] number. Spectres are the only exception because each monster has its own base accuracy, but that's why the gem gives quite a bit of flat accuracy now.
[Q: Chaos Golem + Withering Touch, will it apply wither with its Cascade Spell?] We've looked into it and it seems like it will apply wither on hit with spells, the stat description is accurate, with the only limit being what it can support.
Chaos Golem's sandstorm deals about 1600 chaos damage per second at gem level 20.
The Mine/Trap damage from Skitterbots isn't an aura, it's a constant buff like the Golem buff, so Generosity won't apply to the Mine/Trap damage of Skitterbots.
Primordial Might and Feeding Frenzy use the same Aggressive stat/behaviour.
From their reminder text:
(Aggressive minions have their targeting range raised to a minimum value)
(Defensive minions have their targeting range lowered to a maximum value. They always target enemies around you)
Standard minion behaviour will always target enemies around your last targeted location, so Defensive is the only one that overrides that. Aggressive will mean they'll always search in a large area around that last target location (Which some minions already did) while Defensive changes the target location and limits the attack range quite a bit.
Moving far enough from where you currently are counts as changing target location, so small steps won't stop them doing what they're doing. Aggressive's minimum range is 80, while Defensive's maximum range is 35, if those numbers mean anything to you!
Feeding Frenzy's reminder text: (Feeding Frenzy grants 10% more Minion Damage, 15% increased Minion Movement Speed and 15% increased Minion Attack and Cast Speed)
Spiritual Aid doesn't give you any benefit from Feeding Frenzy, because Feeding Frenzy gives More damage, while Spiritual Aid only applies to increases and reductions. Spiritual Command would give you the increased attack speed from Feeding Frenzy though, that one works!
The +2 to all Minion Skill Gems doesn't apply to the Phantasm Support or other minion supports, nor does it apply to minion skills that come directly from items like Soulwrest, as they're not actual gems.
Support Gems are different from Skill Gems, not a subset of them. This is a little bit confusing because of some old discontinued naming conventions!
[Q: Can minions gain Inspiration charges?] At a glance I don't see monsters having maximum inspiration charges set so probably not, but you'll have to confirm this in game later if you have a minion that spends mana.
Inspiration Charges have no inbuilt stats on them or monsters, everything currently just comes from the Support Gem stats.
[Q: Is there a way to know if a minion spends mana?] If you want to know on a case by case basis if a skill costs mana, putting Blood Magic on it is one way, maybe Arcane Surge? Not sure about Arcane Surge off the top of my head sorry.
[Bone Armour's] tags are Spell, Duration, Guard, Minion. It's not a gem though, so won't be increased by global modifiers to minion skill gem levels. It will count as casting a spell of those types for any stats that care about that jazz. It has the same stats as a level 20 Steelskin, with the added benefit of also applying to all of your minions.
Shock effect does work on the Necromancer's shocking corpses notable.
I don't believe you can use any supports to increase the effect of the Necromancer's shock/chill corpses. I can't test this right now though, sorry.
Blight's Towers can't be directly influenced by auras, but the minions they summon and the damage taken by enemies they hit can.
[Q: Inspiration Support + CoC/CwC Spell, do they benefit or just main ability?] All supported skills gain the benefits per Inspiration Charge, regardless of if they generated them or not. This could also mean that you could generate Inspiration Charges with one skill, then get the benefit on a completely unrelated skill as long as it is supported by an Insipration Support.
Mine auras last a short time after they've been activated, so if the detonation cascade is fast enough, all can be affected by all auras. (link)
Minion Instability isn't a skill so doesn't have tags/types in the traditional sense. It just has something that makes it count as Area damage for any area damage modifiers your minions might acquire.
Last edited by Hercanic on Sep 5, 2019, 11:53:14 PM
Hi guys. I would like to use spiders this league. I was thinking about spider + skeleton. Do you think it could work or should I try different minions with the spiders (specters for clearing? zombies for tanking?).
Last edited by haitike on Sep 5, 2019, 10:17:02 AM
So basically I liked the 20 mil DPS Zombie build in the other thread but I hate life builds because they all 'cap out' at 7k HP. You are not really tanky there more just average. Add to that they are using a Avian Nest unique chest (EV/ES) with a life build which seems a complete waste.
I liked the idea of a hybrid build with the partially unnerfed MoS, Discipline and Corrupted Soul.
https://pastebin.com/NXKd5tJJ
Made a custom Jewel to represent Corrupted Soul.
I used the other guys gear (which is not optimised for hybrid anyway).
Around 10 ish Zombies and Skeletons (gear changes will impact that a lot) all doing 400-500k damage each. Hybrid defences with 6k Life and 6 ES with MoS 'healing' the ES side and Zombies 'healing' the Life side. 4 Spectres with 2 being Frenzy buffers and 2 being power charge buffers. I replaced Blood Magic since the charge generation spells for spectres have a cooldown now so its not mana that is the issue. Chaos Golem for 5% phys resist.
Obviously gear will be a factor but it seems to work fine in theory.
Ready for 3.8!
Last edited by Max_zero on Sep 5, 2019, 1:19:28 PM
Great forum guide. Loved reading through. With this build I will definitely try and take my first Uber Elder on in 3.8.
Do you have an updated POB yet for the new league. I could not find a POB for your hybrid build but would love to see the total gear choices, links and tree.
Hi guys. I would like to use spiders this league. I was thinking about spider + skeleton. Do you think it could work or should I try different minions with the spiders (specters for clearing? zombies for tanking?).
Check out "thoughts on dropping Herald of Agony" in the 3.8 Roundup post. This covers how to drop the Agony Crawler, which opens up our weapon slot. I have tested Arakaali's Fang, and it works great.
With Cyclone, it's very easy to immediately kill the Worms while staying in motion. You could even put Desecrate in CwC to always have corpses.
The only issue I had was that I personally didn't like having to keep glancing up at the spider counter, since spiders cannot be refreshed or replaced until they expire or you weapon swap to destroy them. The changes in 3.8 will bring with it a massive amount of minion duration, so maintaining the spiders should feel much better.
With the spiders also gaining Phasing, they should no longy delay or block Zombies and Skeletons when facing a boss.
So basically I liked the 20 mil DPS Zombie build in the other thread but I hate life builds because they all 'cap out' at 7k HP. You are not really tanky there more just average. Add to that they are using a Avian Nest unique chest (EV/ES) with a life build which seems a complete waste.
I liked the idea of a hybrid build with the partially unnerfed MoS, Discipline and Corrupted Soul.
https://pastebin.com/NXKd5tJJ
Made a custom Jewel to represent Corrupted Soul.
I used the other guys gear (which is not optimised for hybrid anyway).
Around 10 ish Zombies and Skeletons (gear changes will impact that a lot) all doing 400-500k damage each. Hybrid defences with 6k Life and 6 ES with MoS 'healing' the ES side and Zombies 'healing' the Life side. 4 Spectres with 2 being Frenzy buffers and 2 being power charge buffers. I replaced Blood Magic since the charge generation spells for spectres have a cooldown now so its not mana that is the issue. Chaos Golem for 5% phys resist.
Obviously gear will be a factor but it seems to work fine in theory.
Ready for 3.8!
"
with MoS 'healing' the ES side and Zombies 'healing' the Life side.
So Baron and STR stacking? Sounds fun! They'll get a tenth of your STR as % increased melee damage, so 1200 STR = 120% increased damage (= STR / 2 / 5).
Shaper's Touch gloves would add ~224% increased ES, which should about double your ES, but just keep in mind that Glorious Vanity essentially caps ES to Life.
Your ES numbers are off, though. Glorious Vanity will give you 20% of your flat life and multiply it by your 172% Life and 216% ES. Your pastebin has 2183 flat life, so that'd be 436 base ES * (1 + 1.72 + 2.16 = 4.88) = 2130 total ES. The manually edited jewel you have with 1244 flat ES is giving you 3931 ES. That's 1800 more than the 2130 that Corrupted Soul will actually give you.
It's a shame the build is so strapped for passive points, since it's missing out on the Fearsome Force AOE cluster (Zombie slams) and Ravenous Horde movement speed cluster (which melee minions need for good clear).
In any case, the build should be quite powerful. Good luck!
Great forum guide. Loved reading through. With this build I will definitely try and take my first Uber Elder on in 3.8.
Do you have an updated POB yet for the new league. I could not find a POB for your hybrid build but would love to see the total gear choices, links and tree.
Keep on doing the epic Dark Mistress's work!
"
With this build I will definitely try and take my first Uber Elder on in 3.8.
Awesome! Be sure to let me know how it goes!
"
Do you have an updated POB yet for the new league.
Not yet. I'm still in the midst of testing different permutations.
For the time being, you can import Children_of_the_Mind from my account and apply the tree I posted. It won't be accurate until the new gem data is updated in PoB, which won't happen until after 3.8's release.
Last edited by Hercanic on Sep 5, 2019, 5:33:33 PM
Hi guys. I would like to use spiders this league. I was thinking about spider + skeleton. Do you think it could work or should I try different minions with the spiders (specters for clearing? zombies for tanking?).
Check out "thoughts on dropping Herald of Agony" in the 3.8 Roundup post. This covers how to drop the Agony Crawler, which opens up our weapon slot. I have tested Arakaali's Fang, and it works great.
With Cyclone, it's very easy to immediately kill the Worms while staying in motion. You could even put Desecrate in CwC to always have corpses.
The only issue I had was that I personally didn't like having to keep glancing up at the spider counter, since spiders cannot be refreshed or replaced until they expire or you weapon swap to destroy them. The changes in 3.8 will bring with it a massive amount of minion duration, so maintaining the spiders should feel much better.
With the spiders also gaining Phasing, they should no longy delay or block Zombies and Skeletons when facing a boss.
So basically I liked the 20 mil DPS Zombie build in the other thread but I hate life builds because they all 'cap out' at 7k HP. You are not really tanky there more just average. Add to that they are using a Avian Nest unique chest (EV/ES) with a life build which seems a complete waste.
I liked the idea of a hybrid build with the partially unnerfed MoS, Discipline and Corrupted Soul.
https://pastebin.com/NXKd5tJJ
Made a custom Jewel to represent Corrupted Soul.
I used the other guys gear (which is not optimised for hybrid anyway).
Around 10 ish Zombies and Skeletons (gear changes will impact that a lot) all doing 400-500k damage each. Hybrid defences with 6k Life and 6 ES with MoS 'healing' the ES side and Zombies 'healing' the Life side. 4 Spectres with 2 being Frenzy buffers and 2 being power charge buffers. I replaced Blood Magic since the charge generation spells for spectres have a cooldown now so its not mana that is the issue. Chaos Golem for 5% phys resist.
Obviously gear will be a factor but it seems to work fine in theory.
Ready for 3.8!
"
with MoS 'healing' the ES side and Zombies 'healing' the Life side.
So Baron and STR stacking? Sounds fun! They'll get a tenth of your STR as % increased melee damage, so 1200 STR = 120% increased damage (= STR / 2 / 5).
Shaper's Touch gloves would add ~224% increased ES, which should about double your ES, but just keep in mind that Glorious Vanity essentially caps ES to Life.
Your ES numbers are off, though. Glorious Vanity will give you 20% of your flat life and multiply it by your 172% Life and 216% ES. Your pastebin has 2183 flat life, so that'd be 436 base ES * (1 + 1.72 + 2.16 = 4.88) = 2130 total ES. The manually edited jewel you have with 1244 flat ES is giving you 3931 ES. That's 1800 more than the 2130 that Corrupted Soul will actually give you.
It's a shame the build is so strapped for passive points, since it's missing out on the Fearsome Force AOE cluster (Zombie slams) and Ravenous Horde movement speed cluster (which melee minions need for good clear).
In any case, the build should be quite powerful. Good luck!
Great forum guide. Loved reading through. With this build I will definitely try and take my first Uber Elder on in 3.8.
Do you have an updated POB yet for the new league. I could not find a POB for your hybrid build but would love to see the total gear choices, links and tree.
Keep on doing the epic Dark Mistress's work!
"
With this build I will definitely try and take my first Uber Elder on in 3.8.
Awesome! Be sure to let me know how it goes!
"
Do you have an updated POB yet for the new league.
Not yet. I'm still in the midst of testing different permutations.
For the time being, you can import Children_of_the_Mind from my account and apply the tree I posted. It won't be accurate until the new gem data is updated in PoB, which won't happen until after 3.8's release.
Thanks for the Corrupted Soul calcs. I had no idea how it was going to be calculated so I just assumned 20% of total.
Thought about Shaper's touch I got to over 8000 ES with it while having 6000 life.
That's including after recalculating Corrupted Soul for the lower life total.
I am focusing heavily on defence because the damage numbers are wild. Once you start messing with stacking Stormblast Mines auras with Minefield support with a bit of aura buffing passive it just gets silly. Have to do it manually of course since PoB is still catching up.
So at this point my Summoner is the weaklink so I making him as tough as I can.
https://pastebin.com/XVfyaYf4
The level 1 Ruthless are the closet approximation I can make to Feeding Frenzy (+24% versus +25% for Ruthless on average). I want the more aggressive pets since they kill anything anyway. The Fire Mine is a placeholder for Stormblast Mine.
Last edited by Max_zero on Sep 5, 2019, 6:27:01 PM
Hi, loved your build even late in the league. How will this work as league starter build this time for slow casual players? Can we just follow your leveling guide until you get the chance to update fully without risking too much respeccing?
