Incursion League Area Stats

OMG temple of atzoatl - most dies - I never die there and only 4-5 dies in incursions because of bad mods....

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Souleus wrote:

The real trick would be to feedback this kind of data into the game's drop system so that less popular areas become more rewarding.

That would be really interesting and I'm all for it!

Caer Blaidd in top 10? What?

0.87 Deaths on average in The Feeding Trough in standard. Wow, must be a lot of cast on death builds.

MF needs a rework. There used to be an opportunity cost to MF: your character was weak. As DPS has continued to inflate over time and get easier to come across, the downsides of going MF have all but vanished. At this point if you're not running MF you're doing yourself a massive disservice. The fact that the highest tiers of divination cards can be farmed in worthless T3 maps is also an issue, but I suspect it's ultimately MF -- being able to stack obscene IIQ and still have a strong character -- that's the core of the issue.

One of the biggest takeaways I see is that a lot of players are either just plain bad, or just don't know any better, since there's a LOT of time spent on really suboptimal farming strats. That means that they are grossly mistaken on what works, or are just trying to go for "safer" stuff 'cuz they're not thinking themselves good enough to farm better.

• Doctor farming is just plain obscene. It's kinda sad, since if you're any good at it, you average 0.5-1 exalt's worth per run of the labyrinth, yet a fully decked-out MF setup w/5 leeches gets one Doctor card per 250-300 runs, (~1,000 runs if using white maps and no MF gear) and given that a Windripper TS build is NOT that great at clearspeed, they clear maybe 2-3 Burial Chambers in the time it takes a labrunner for one run.
  
  
• Ditto for Humility cards. The figures I've been presented suggest anywhere from 1-5 runs per card drop, for an item that... Is worth a divine orb? That means individual cards aren't even really worth 2 chaos. Incursions make it SLIGHTLY better... But, y'know, the Temple of Atzoatl's not gonna be worth much at level 61. And even -IF- you have a good reason for farming sub-68 areas... Harbour Bridge is one level lower, and has more than enough added mob density to make up for it... And the pitiful wealth that you lose from the lack of Humility drops.
  
  
• Oni-Goroshi Farming is also laughably large. Granted, the time-per-instance is a lot smaller here; maybe 30-40 seconds to run to the end, kill Hillock, and log out. Still, given it's worth barely more than an exalt or so... I guess if Charan wanted to demonstrate just how players can be tricked into obsessively repeating the silliest of actions, he aced it.
  
  
• The fact that Beach is the #2 map run (second only to Burial Chambers, of course) says a lot about how the community relies too much on dated and bad information. It was the ideal T2 map during Atlas of Worlds, to be sure, but with 3.1.0's release of War for the Atlas...
  
  
  • Beach's mob density was cut. Graveyard's is MUCH higher.
    
  • Also, Beach has no noteworthy card drops. Beach has Three Voices, along with The Union.
    
  • Lastly, with the whole Elder "square" (IMO should be called "Elder Box") strategy, T1s aren't that practical compared to a T3, T4, or T5.

Beyond that, of course, some other obvious things show up, namely that some of the act bosses/mid-bosses are either overtuned or poorly-designed. I'd argue that Act VIII Doedre leans towards the former (those stacking debuffs get nasty quick; I'd recommend re-tuning so the stacks have "diminishing returns.") while Kitava is on the latter. (His ultimate fire breath gives no good indication that it's even a "Safe zone" attack, let alone where it is; Sin/Innocence should probably zip to it and actually give a voice indicator for the player to follow)

Still, I have a number of legitimate questions, since my curiosity -IS- piqued by some things:

• I'm not so sure as to the popularity of Arid Lake; it doesn't seem to be that great a zone. (even though I personally shaped it for lack of a better T2) Yet it's barely behind Beach. Are players genuinely stuck in one way or another that badly on just the first couple tiers of map? Would be interesting if GGG gave us a breakdown of ALL maps, or at least instances grouped by tier. Unless I'm Elder Boxing, I usually stick with the lower/mid red maps myself (as T14-16 have proven a bit irksome to sustain) but are other players struggling far lower?
  
  
• Similarly, I dunno what's with The Crystal Veins. Only reason to ever return to it anymore is if you're finishing the Plaguemaw prophecy chain, and there can't be THAT many runs there for that... Else we'd see similar numbers for the other Pale Council members.
  
  
• Why is Chamber of Sins I (590,812) listed above The Crossroads? (621,295) Is it a typo? Similarly, why do those zones stand out? And are they Act II or Act VII?
  
  
• In softcore, how is Absence of Value and Meaning not on the list for deaths-per-instance, but The Shaper's Realm is? Is it that the latter is easy to reach, but in softcore only the "good" players ever actually do Elder?
  
  
• Even more puzzling is how apparently Mao Kun, Olmec's Sanctum, and Death & Taxes are "deadly" maps. I mean, when they were first introduced, maybe... (I'll admit to them all making me nervous back pre-2.x) But I'd consider them vastly power-creeped out of being a threat.

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Homyak555 wrote:

Caer Blaidd in top 10? What?

Top 10 in total, but not HC, which means it's mostly SC players dying. Which is a bit understandable; for a lot of players, this will be their first map experience with heavy damage thrown their way.

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MF needs a rework. There used to be an opportunity cost to MF: your character was weak. As DPS has continued to inflate over time and get easier to come across, the downsides of going MF have all but vanished. At this point if you're not running MF you're doing yourself a massive disservice. The fact that the highest tiers of divination cards can be farmed in worthless T3 maps is also an issue, but I suspect it's ultimately MF -- being able to stack obscene IIQ and still have a strong character -- that's the core of the issue.

I do concur a lot with this. The speed meta is okay; to be honest most non-boring games have found that as the players "git gud," the speed meta is the only sustainable way to go. (see: Warframe vs. Destiny 2; the former is a speed meta, and the latter no one plays)

But that there's not that much cost to going MF... While there's some ways you can gimp yourself (anyone who thinks that a Windripper is great for clearspeed is deluding themselves; there's like 5 different unique bows for a chaos or less that best it) even then it's not that costly, particularly when sticking on really lower-tier stuff.

It's been part of an ongoing problem, also seen on the EXP side of the equation: GGG has been kinda punishing players a lot for trying to do the challenging content, rather than spam the zero-effort stuff. Shaper's Realm is equivalent to level 77.7 for in terms of being outside of the grace range for your EXP penalty, and every map below that is even worse. GGG -really- needs to realize that while their goal was to "slow down the race to 100" (that currently finishes in about 5 days each race/league) that this isn't actually helping since no one does T15+ stuff to level, they spam yellow or white maps instead.

In that situation, they ought to remove all the weird "diminishing returns" and instead just go "y'know what? At level 99, all EXP gains are cut to be 90% less of what they would be otherwise." At least that'd be straightforward and not punish players who want to do something other than grind the same non-challenging stuff over and over.

top tier opinions here from the last 2 posts.

i want to say POE has so much to offer and everyone can get something to play with.
but still i would like to see a more "viable" red-string that goes from lvl 1 to Uber-Elder.
And i like it, that the game is hard, u'll have to check the wiki sometimes for the bosses
to know how to counter them, like cesspool with a curse removal or some chaos resis.
or when u get to act 6 u may want to stack some fire resis first before u go out.

Still "feeling" punished for doing harder stuff makes it a bit worse but i would not care much for that since most players would find that game to hard then and move back to diablo , right ?
so let's keep them all equaliy happy for reasons.

however i would like to have as a semi-ssf player (playing tradeleague but trying to get most of it on my on (kinda impossible most of the time tho..)
i would like to have options to get my gear together and the stuff i need, even it is not that good but good enough to jump me from tier 5 to tier 7.
i still struggle to deal with it, that when i do tier 1 - 7 maps it feels worse than farming little bit in ACT 10 ... i mean... gimme some progress please without having to chaos-recipe 24/7 or depending on good league/luck.

Like in beastiary league, which was fantastic about that stuff, u could just go to the menagerie and craft something (sure it wasnt good designed, i think and it needs a lot of improvement but that was the right direction i believe)

Also this is the first league i killed a shaper guardian and i made it from lvl 89 to 92 and still growing which is a huge step forward for me esp with a non-meta build.
I still got kinda frustrated when i did some t14 and t15 and all i got was white ilvl84 items.
which CAN be nice becuase endgame seems to be alla bout crafting it your own (which i prefer nowadays cuz drops cost only time to look at x).. )
but how to craft if the currencies seem to be that rare to craft.

+++ master mission are to boring most of the time and take tooo long to actually get it going and craft some nice stuff that may carry you some levels until u wanna change them. nah its better to farm chaos and buy the stuff. so it would be nice to have some options.

Other than that, i can't realy understand why ppl would farm weeks over and over the same map but do if u like.


Stay sane Exile ! :)

Great Game, Thank you

it seems that where ever the doctor card is the map meta will go so maybe put it in a harder tier map or another thought would be to make it a random drop in only t12 or higher non - shaped red maps to make it "reward" people for harder content and natural progression rather then a brainless safe farm.

im fine with mf builds being in the game

if you were to nerf it, you would first have to make it possible to play a mf culler which isnt possible to play with the current clearspeed level ( my top 3 fav spec rest in peace) that has been in place since the strand vaal skill meta

Made me laugh so hard ^^

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Average Deaths Per Instance (Hardcore Only)
Naturally, the deaths in Hardcore only are a lot lower than between all league versions, however it looks like The Hall of Grandmasters and the Vaal Temple are popular places to end your hardcore characters' adventures.