[3.5] Ghoulish Overkill! Zombie+Skeleton Baron build

Will they be able to gain stages of the banner though?

Also, how exactly does victario's "double" our damage with 3 frenzy charges? Assuming there won't be any power charges on the most of the bosses.

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Solitairepro wrote:

Will they be able to gain stages of the banner though?

Also, how exactly does victario's "double" our damage with 3 frenzy charges? Assuming there won't be any power charges on the most of the bosses.

You'd really be surprised how few enemies need to die in order for your zombies to have 2/3 power charges. You'll have them up for 99% of the bosses in the game, with the only notable exceptions being Shaper and a couple of the Elder Guardians (and the occasional map boss, but TBH, T15/16 non-guardian map bosses die in 2-3 seconds anyway.
But more than that, frenzy charges are disgusting for minions. 3 frenzy charges = 45% attack speed and 12% more damage. Not to mention the movement speed, which is most peoples' largest complaint with using zombies.

As far as any changes for 3.5, I will NOT be making speculation in this build until after patch notes are released, and perhaps not until after the first week of league. If you want to start with this build, you'll have to start with the same information I have. Which, currently, isn't a ton past this post. However, what I'm looking for in the patch notes and first week are as follows: How, EXACTLY do banners work? Are there any new support gems that may make for some interesting damage/survivability layers? Are there new strength-related unique items or rare rolls being introduced? Are there new minions to slap into this build? Are there any crazy rolls available on the new veiled mods for zombies/skeletons/strength?
If I'm correct about the way banners work, and if I'm correct about a support gem I expect to see be added to the game that hasn't been revealed yet, and if I'm right about how some of the new veiled mods work, there may be new "chase after" rares, and some minor changes for end-game that will eke out a bit more damage. However, I expect leveling to 85-90 to largely be the same.

Yes, I plan to start the Betrayal with it. It's the most reliable sort of build I know to progress through HC.

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Orangeuglad wrote:

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Solitairepro wrote:

Will they be able to gain stages of the banner though?

Also, how exactly does victario's "double" our damage with 3 frenzy charges? Assuming there won't be any power charges on the most of the bosses.

You'd really be surprised how few enemies need to die in order for your zombies to have 2/3 power charges. You'll have them up for 99% of the bosses in the game, with the only notable exceptions being Shaper and a couple of the Elder Guardians (and the occasional map boss, but TBH, T15/16 non-guardian map bosses die in 2-3 seconds anyway.
But more than that, frenzy charges are disgusting for minions. 3 frenzy charges = 45% attack speed and 12% more damage. Not to mention the movement speed, which is most peoples' largest complaint with using zombies.

Ok, so why not just use those gorilla specters? And keep block and shield stats to yourself. I play HC so for me it seems as a much better option.

Also, it's tempting to add minion instability one-shots like in that build I saw somewhere around here that uses weapon-switch to explode vaal skeletons. Primarily for the end-game bosses.

Too bad you can't have both skeleton and duration ascendancy nodes to also get the ES restoration mechanic from zombiemancer build.

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Solitairepro wrote:

Yes, I plan to start the Betrayal with it. It's the most reliable sort of build I know to progress through HC.

"

Orangeuglad wrote:

"

Solitairepro wrote:

Will they be able to gain stages of the banner though?

Also, how exactly does victario's "double" our damage with 3 frenzy charges? Assuming there won't be any power charges on the most of the bosses.

You'd really be surprised how few enemies need to die in order for your zombies to have 2/3 power charges. You'll have them up for 99% of the bosses in the game, with the only notable exceptions being Shaper and a couple of the Elder Guardians (and the occasional map boss, but TBH, T15/16 non-guardian map bosses die in 2-3 seconds anyway.
But more than that, frenzy charges are disgusting for minions. 3 frenzy charges = 45% attack speed and 12% more damage. Not to mention the movement speed, which is most peoples' largest complaint with using zombies.

Ok, so why not just use those gorilla specters? And keep block and shield stats to yourself. I play HC so for me it seems as a much better option.

Also, it's tempting to add minion instability one-shots like in that build I saw somewhere around here that uses weapon-switch to explode vaal skeletons. Primarily for the end-game bosses.

Too bad you can't have both skeleton and duration ascendancy nodes to also get the ES restoration mechanic from zombiemancer build.

You absolutely can make that shield change, I personally prefer having the dome of safety from the Evangelist, but swapping to the gorilla is an easy change. If you do that change you have to make either a couple of swaps. The first is removing the shield node on the tree and the intell leading to it (including an intel to str jewel). This change will require you to find around 70-100 strength from elsewhere in the tree/gear. Or the other option would be to give the minions another damage shield. The best options being

Broken Faith - Large amount of bonus Chaos damage, doubles minion armour

or

Chernobog's Pillar - provides curse on hit and phys to fire conversion

"

Solitairepro wrote:

Yes, I plan to start the Betrayal with it. It's the most reliable sort of build I know to progress through HC.

"

Orangeuglad wrote:

"

Solitairepro wrote:

Will they be able to gain stages of the banner though?

Also, how exactly does victario's "double" our damage with 3 frenzy charges? Assuming there won't be any power charges on the most of the bosses.

You'd really be surprised how few enemies need to die in order for your zombies to have 2/3 power charges. You'll have them up for 99% of the bosses in the game, with the only notable exceptions being Shaper and a couple of the Elder Guardians (and the occasional map boss, but TBH, T15/16 non-guardian map bosses die in 2-3 seconds anyway.
But more than that, frenzy charges are disgusting for minions. 3 frenzy charges = 45% attack speed and 12% more damage. Not to mention the movement speed, which is most peoples' largest complaint with using zombies.

Ok, so why not just use those gorilla specters? And keep block and shield stats to yourself. I play HC so for me it seems as a much better option.

Also, it's tempting to add minion instability one-shots like in that build I saw somewhere around here that uses weapon-switch to explode vaal skeletons. Primarily for the end-game bosses.

Too bad you can't have both skeleton and duration ascendancy nodes to also get the ES restoration mechanic from zombiemancer build.

To be entirely honest, on hard fights where you'd be likely to die, I think you lose more out of getting rid of the proximity shield minions/auto-cast enfeeble minions than you gain out of having a shield to yourself. If you'd like more defensive options, I'd be glad to supply them, but I don't think getting rid of Necromantic Aegis is going to give you as much as you seem to think it will. I'm certain you could make the changes to the build to keep at least some of that, but... it's not my build anymore. I do, however, welcome you to try it out, and maybe even make your own build guide. If you do, and I like it, I'd be more than happy to link to it in my guide like I did to Clooney's zombie build.

Meh, I don't have any new ideas, just trying to compile what other people already came up with.

Any chance you could hook us up with some leveling trees for betrayal? Not quite sure which nodes to get first/last.

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demondied1 wrote:

Any chance you could hook us up with some leveling trees for betrayal? Not quite sure which nodes to get first/last.

Sure thing!

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Orangeuglad wrote:

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demondied1 wrote:

Any chance you could hook us up with some leveling trees for betrayal? Not quite sure which nodes to get first/last.

Sure thing!

Sweet! looking forward to it :)