Skill Revamps - Part 3

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DrDraids wrote:

Don't forget how much you have to invest to make barrage good ggg

yeah.. you need to place it into the socket.

barrage deals around TWO times the damage of second best skill. barrage is the problem (and will be - because this 'nerf' is a f.. joke that changes NOT A SINGLE thing)

burning arrow needs at least 2 'more multiplier' supports to get to the same damage. barrage allows people with terrible builds, bad gear and mediocre skills to STILL demolish content regardless of their shortcomings

barrage is a problem and WILL remain a problem even with this faux-solution to completely different problem (giving 'extra arrows' away like candy)

so you are safe and tears and knee jerk reactions are not in order

wrap you mind around this: meta is stale because there are few skills that are simply twice or thrice as good as other options. barrage, tornado shot, blade flurry, sunder, warchief - try to beat them

making new skills is pointless at this time because new skill has to be better than already bonkers stuff for people to notice. wand playstyle is KB and KB only because KB is THE STRONGEST skill in the entire game. if it had worked with bows NOONE would EVER use other bow skills. stale meta comes from idiotic balance and auto-picks. having multitude of similar options makes meta interesting because it is created by players.
no amount of creativity will create a 'sweep meta' - because sweep is garbage no matter how much money you throw at it. and sweep is garbage because there are other skills that do the same stuff but better, not because it is inherently flaved

I like the idea of revamps!VERY MUCH to be honest because it gives a little fresh air into the game i love!On the other hand though,Barrage seemed to be fine for the last 3 Years?!?!?!WHy not invent something better for people to use and attract them to a new skill instead of throwing Loved skills into the bin?Inventing a new projectile single target skill will also fix the problem with Barrage being the only skill used by wanres for single target!Typical GGG answer-"why think and invent something new,when we can just nerf the good ones,and don't give people a choice"!I am interested how the wanders are going to be able to overcome the nerf....

I understand barrage is op. Its not just a bow skill though. GGG seems to have overlooked the fact that its also a wanders single target skill. The only viable single target skill that a wander will ever have unless power siphon also shoots 5 projectiles. Big nerf to bow builds, massive massive nerf to wanding. GGG is looking into other alternatives for barrage for bow builds, but never mentioned a single thing about wanders. You better fucking buff power siphon.

1. I love your Rain of Arrows revemp. If i understand correctly the amount of arrows you shot increases the areo of effect?

2. Make Barrage a channal skill with increasing attack speed over time via a charge build up system like blade flurry.
ALSO make cyclone a channal skill... Thank.

3. What about Explosive Arrow? Based on the statistic you realesed a few days ago it is one of the most unused skills and i think it is the most unused non vaal skill

are wanders really in need of something even after this joke of a nerf? people claiming that wanders are 'weak' are most probably playing wander and wander only because in comparison to other playstyles - wanders are OBSCENE for clear and very strong for single target with VERY limited investment

you can thank KB for wanders being what they are - KB is so good that everything new will be compared to it and because KB is obscene, there is no point in even competing. even GGG knows skill stronger than KB is a 'bit' too much

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sidtherat wrote:

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DrDraids wrote:

Don't forget how much you have to invest to make barrage good ggg

yeah.. you need to place it into the socket.

barrage deals around TWO times the damage of second best skill. barrage is the problem (and will be - because this 'nerf' is a f.. joke that changes NOT A SINGLE thing)

burning arrow needs at least 2 'more multiplier' supports to get to the same damage. barrage allows people with terrible builds, bad gear and mediocre skills to STILL demolish content regardless of their shortcomings

barrage is a problem and WILL remain a problem even with this faux-solution to completely different problem (giving 'extra arrows' away like candy)

so you are safe and tears and knee jerk reactions are not in order

wrap you mind around this: meta is stale because there are few skills that are simply twice or thrice as good as other options. barrage, tornado shot, blade flurry, sunder, warchief - try to beat them

making new skills is pointless at this time because new skill has to be better than already bonkers stuff for people to notice. wand playstyle is KB and KB only because KB is THE STRONGEST skill in the entire game. if it had worked with bows NOONE would EVER use other bow skills. stale meta comes from idiotic balance and auto-picks. having multitude of similar options makes meta interesting because it is created by players.
no amount of creativity will create a 'sweep meta' - because sweep is garbage no matter how much money you throw at it. and sweep is garbage because there are other skills that do the same stuff but better, not because it is inherently flaved

So what you mean is they created something nice that is liked by many,used by almost all and attracts people because it is Practical,does a lot of damage and it has relative easy use.Than they have to scrap that now,becuase a lot of people use it (Which by the way is intended and it is the purpose of a skill).By scraping it they will "provide" us with "new" old single target skills to use,which btw are 1 :D!There are better and worse skills in this game,that accumulates by how easy the skills are,how much damage they deal,how the look and so on.Barrage happens to be one of the most liked skills,and the lack of other alternative to it,makes it "META"!Regarding your other statement,can you please pick up a 200 pdps bow and socket barrage in,and "demolish" the content as you said it?I bet you will die like a cockroach every 5 minutes.What i mean by that,your statement covered about 1% of the top tier community.For the "average joe" player,who strugles on a budget of 2-3 ex and mid-to no lvl gear,Barrage is life saving and enables people to at least enjoy some content of the game!If you take away that,you will kill the average players out there for sure.Fact is,you can make ANY skill work with mirrored tier!!!!Skill with full mirrored builds will be always abused,by the top tier community.That does not apply to the mid and under tier which are the core of this game!World's economy tics on the contrary basis of what here is done!When there is a car that is loved by the community,what happens?Yup you guessed it,another Company tries to make a better car so people love their brand and buy it!That in itself promotes the invention of new and better things!Same applies to the skill here!Should we get new "inventions" to draw us away from Barrage and have more variety,or should BMW scrap Mercedes-Benz because it is more liked than their brand for example!I find your statement undeveloped and irresponsable!

Barrage is SO amazing, Molten Strike is the #1 attack skill used this league by a huge margin.

Focus make good new league , make more new bow skills , some love for guilds ,make something new for buy :)

Looking at these two skills, I do have two primary concerns:

• If the possible error circle increases for each added arrow, that would substantially blunt the effectiveness of each extra arrow. Of course, this is going under the understanding that EACH arrow gets its own possible "error circle," since you suggest that extra ones won't impact the accuracy of the lower-numbered arrows. (if it does... Then it's a huge problem that will sink the skill)
  
  
• While I don't 100% agree with what sid said, I do feel that the slight rework to barrage won't really harm its incredible OP-ness in the long term; you're merely reducing the effectiveness of each extra projectile's damage bump by 25%, meaning an overall DPS nerf of, depending on extra projectiles, respectively -0%, -4%, -6.7%, -8.6%, -10% at +0 through +4 projectiles... Eventually trending towards -20% at infinity extra arrows. This won't really affect it that much: we're still going to see Barrage as far and away the best ranged skill to nuke down endgame bosses, with its millions of effective DPS.

Of course, this still doesn't address the elephant in the room: the pathfinder, and an infinite supply of amped-up unique flasks like Dying Sun. It's a flask of questionable utility OUTSIDE of pathfinder wander/bow users, so that will need to be addressed; you can't just nerf it outright.

Crossing finger for Explosive arrow remake.