Map Stash Price and Ethical Behavior

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johnKeys wrote:

maybe I shouldn't have used the term "P2W" directly.
it tends to always draw the Philosophy Professors going "what did you win? lol kappa trololo".

my opinion is Tabs at this point smell fishy, and not because of Krillson.

The boat long sailed through.

The game is directly modeled as large amounts of mtx sales to make up for your ugly character + stash tab sales since beta/day 1 of game release, in which it was herald as one of the best f2p game in existence.

Changing it now because suddenly people have different feels about being married to the game for multiple years or 100s of hours is unreasonable for the company.

At best you can ask for maybe ONE additional free stash tab (to reward player loyalty), or have much better in-game organization for free (auto sort or some other stuff).

It's a relationship with the publisher/owner of the game, it's unreasonable to demand a one-sided thing when you originally agreed to the beginning setup :V

What is the alternative to making up for the loss of income? Sub to the game for unlimited stash tab?

it's still one of the best (if not THE best) free to play games today.

but the boat evolves while sailing.
the pay for convenience model should evolve with it, to avoid crossing that line and steering full speed into the EA shoal.

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johnKeys wrote:

it's still one of the best (if not THE best) free to play games today.

but the boat evolves while sailing.
the pay for convenience model should evolve with it, to avoid crossing that line and steering full speed into the EA shoal.

I mean that's what I'm talking about, the model is literally the same thing. VARIATIONS of the same stash tabs system and mtx, if they evolved they would have added more convenience items. The company changing would be worst for us, not better since the model cannot be anymore beneficial for players without hurting the company.

Also if you literally buy every single stash tab + the premium version (premium quad + premium pack of 6) it totals up to like $66 which is a price of a normal game and far beyond most space 90%+ of players need :V Large portions of players don't even buy a single stash tab and players that would buy every stash tab like above to fuel their 100hour+ grind endgame aren't getting super overcharged or annoyed constantly to spend more money after spending a reasonable amount of money.

fine so sell the game for 66$. I'd buy it. 100$.

but as long as it's free and currently has this huge amount of content - give free players a way to deal with it, while giving paying players more convenient ways to deal with it. optional ways.
that's all I'm asking.

a Premium Stash Tab has a free alternative offering a similar thing with less bells and whistles. it's tolerable. not as ethical as butterfly wings MTX, but tolerable.
Currency Tab. Essence Tab. Maps Tab - don't.
should have.
otherwise ... EA shoal man. fucking loot boxes on the horizon.

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johnKeys wrote:

fine so sell the game for 66$. I'd buy it. 100$.

but as long as it's free and currently has this huge amount of content - give free players a way to deal with it, while giving paying players more convenient ways to deal with it. optional ways.
that's all I'm asking.

a Premium Stash Tab has a free alternative offering a similar thing with less bells and whistles. it's tolerable. not as ethical as butterfly wings MTX, but tolerable.
Currency Tab. Essence Tab. Maps Tab - don't.
should have.
otherwise ... EA shoal man. fucking loot boxes on the horizon.

I mean arguing because you are mentally okay with buying the game for $60 but the game OPTIONALLY allowing you to spend $60 is not the problem of the company lol.

It would be different if you had to buy like $300 worth of convenience items to barely have the game be tolerable to play vs buying a $60 game.

doesn't matter if it's 60 Dollars or a thousand Dollars.

it's selfish wishful thinking in my case: I don't want my nerdy, RPG-addicted 2013 Chris Wilson to change his first name to Jay.

it's easy to become EA. Activision. Ubisoft. some damned iPhone "Free To Play" company.
so much money on the table, it's addictive.
it's a trap EA and Activision themselves fell into over time.

perhaps it's GGG's future to ultimately become a villain or get bought by one.
but until then my Chris is smarter than that, right? right?

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johnKeys wrote:

doesn't matter if it's 60 Dollars or a thousand Dollars.

it's selfish wishful thinking in my case: I don't want my nerdy, RPG-addicted 2013 Chris Wilson to change his first name to Jay.

it's easy to become EA. Activision. Ubisoft. some damned iPhone "Free To Play" company.
so much money on the table, it's addictive.
it's a trap EA and Activision themselves fell into over time.

perhaps it's GGG's future to ultimately become a villain or get bought by one.
but until then my Chris is smarter than that, right? right?

But it literally matters if it's $60 or $1000 dollars because we aren't talking about theoretical concepts of an f2p paradise and how to keep it a purist puritan holy ground.

Nor is GGG suppose to be there to make a statement or be holdup to some magical pedestal that rarely anybody sits on.

If we define pay2win as paying cash to gain advantages in the game, then there is NO argument that PoE has in fact Pay2Win.

Special tabs gives convenience of sorting items. the advantage you gain is time. Premium tabs make trading much easier, & you can't argue that's not an advantage.

The problem however, is, it doesn't paint a correct picture. Calling a game pay2win is as vague & meaningless as calling someone bad or a liar. In Jim Carrey voice in Liar liar, "Everybody lies!" But lies could be telling someone their cooking is nice, to be courteous, to lies that result in 2 countries fighting in a war.

The point I am making, is, I think we shouldn't define pay2Win as a black & white YES/NO, but instead a sliding scale, where the extreme low end are cosmetic mods that enhance just the enjoyment of playing, to the extreme end of Pay2WIn that involve giving huge/unfair advantages to players in a competitive nature, say a mod that adds 20% damage to your fighting game char.

By that scale, I will put PoE has having Pay2Win lite. It's there, subtle, but its not gamebreaking, & players not having them is not heavily handicapped.

That would be my most fair accessment.

Now, do I think GGG should advertise PoE has having NO Pay2Play? If PoE ONLY sell cosmetic, I would say yes, as the Pay2Win aspect for cosmetic is mathematically near to 0%

But GGG does sell some features that give slight advantages, If I had to word it, I will go along the line of

"GGG strive to aviod any Pay2Play features that give significant advantages to players." or along this line.

But having said that, it wasn't that bad in my opinion, & wouldn't call it false advertising what GGG advertise currently.

Im working full time in the f2p industry.

PoE is as close to "free" as it gets.
I do respect and admire GGG for their ballsy approach. Yes, I think it is ballsy to create a game and basically rely on "donations" to survive.

Worked out great so far. Good for them and for us.
Keep going

I agree with Orbaal..
and as someone who played a few hundred hours and basically only needed stash tabs because i'm a hoarder and think the special tabs look nice, i sometimes ask myself if it's ehtical to play a game for thousands of hours and refuse to, say, throw at least 10$ to the maker of that game.

They even allow you to make multiple accounts and connect twice to mule your stuff and pay nothing.

If it's just convenience and time savings that people see as "pay2win" in this game, then GGG would be obliged to give out SSDs for free, if they really promise you can play their game for free and at load-times that are similar to other players (or artificially increase SSD-loadtimes so people who want to play "for free" can enjoy the game as well as "upgrade-pc2win"-people).
And i mean PoE was the only reason i bought a new PC for christmas 2017 ...

Basically: people making free games have to eat too and imo GGG is really trying to stay true to their promises as best as is realistic while still keeping the game running.