F the labyrinth

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

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goetzjam wrote:

People here crying about something that takes such a small amount of time "ruining" the game they enjoyed before, as if you somehow can't experience the same game as before if you would just ignore the lab, when you think about it.

What a magnificent choice of words.

"Crying" when in reality all we do is supplying feedback.

No, at this point it's just whinging. Almost 2 years of the same "feedback" from the same people is definitely whinging. :P

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Severance2hBlade wrote:

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ciel289 wrote:

i´m not against a diffrent option for AcP,but alle the Options mentioned are either changing/cheesing the lab or get them for "free" (stuff like get them x level later etc was suggested).

It has to be an option that is gated (like uber trials) ,should reqiure "some" knowledge to do it. (like Izarro phases) and a "gear" check. (ofc with more knowledge/skill you need less gear).

It doesnt require stuff like the traps as long as it around the "same" time/work to get them,

AC are so powerfull they should be gated somehow, but ofc not total rng.

I can agree here. Most likely you will find the majority of the lab haters agreeing with what you said as well. We don't really ask for anything different.

Yes some will sound that they ask things for free. "Free" is such a powerful word and very easy to be manipulated, at the expense of someone that doesn't like the lab. The same can be said about the "Lab only takes a short time to complete" argument. They are both "bad" arguments & unfair for the other side.

No one is really asking for anything free & yes it should be gated behind something. And while we can't accurately pinpoint what that "something" is right now, we can at least establish that this something doesn't have to be this boring trap system.


Zalhan2 described it best :

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Zalhan2 wrote:

We would RATHER just do some other content instead of having the choice of legally cheating, not doing it or sucking it up and just doing it.

ya the biggest Problem is, that we cant say what should gate it and i think that is the main Problem.

like i have often said before "i like the lab" and i understand ppl not likeing it,but if they keep changing the lab to please the "lab-haters" (cant find a diffrent word here sry) i fear it will be destroyed in it current form.

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Xavathos wrote:

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KiadawP wrote:

You voiced your view a thousand times, so why are you still here. 1/5 of the post here is by you!

Because every time I post, someone has to reply to it, which begs further discussion. A concept not unknown to a forum, mind you. I'm just a pretty popular guy, I guess. ;)

I did say everyone of us, on both sides of the argument have repeated themselves as much, if you read my post at all. The entire topic is just so watered-down, like a couple of old men bickering among each other, saying only the same old stubborn things or exactly what the public wants to hear.

...politics in Wraeclast?

If you're so keen on further discussion, perhaps you could address my last post instead of restating the same thing again?

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suszterpatt wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

That makes zero sense. If it's possible to make the lab more fun for everyone, why should we leave it as it is?

I have yet to hear a suggestion from you that would make the Lab more fun to me personally, so it makes perfect sense for me to say that. You've set your mind to your idea pleasing everyone, but it does not.

IF an idea would be brought to light that makes it more fun for everyone, obviously I would be behind it. Kaom's Stronghold will freeze over long before that happens though.

Ok, here's one.

What if there was an optional way to raise the level/difficulty of trash mobs in uber lab, so that high level farmers actually have a reason to stop and engage them instead of just running past everything?

Do you think that might make the lab more fun to play for you?

And we didn't even talk about how you can't trade while running lab yet. Can anyone give me a single good reason why that should be the case? What is that adding to the game?

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suszterpatt wrote:

And we didn't even talk about how you can't trade while running lab yet. Can anyone give me a single good reason why that should be the case? What is that adding to the game?

that isnt a wanted effect from GGG its just a Sideeffect of the lab rules. They could/might fix it,but i doubt it has a very high priority.
They have added alot of QoL lately maybe we will get it.

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suszterpatt wrote:

And we didn't even talk about how you can't trade while running lab yet. Can anyone give me a single good reason why that should be the case? What is that adding to the game?

How about ascending to an emperor means that one must prove one need not: participate in trade; answer the phone; Let the dog out;

There are at least three reasons, although I would argue that none of those three are good reasons.

It also no longer makes any sense from a lore perspective. Ascending to emperor is really a one time thing, doing it four times doesn't make sense.

I think the bottom line justification of Labyrinth is that the loathsome content is done. The ascendancy points are a critical part of the game. Fixing this would be more effort than GGG up to this point of time was willing to dedicate.

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Turtledove wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

And we didn't even talk about how you can't trade while running lab yet. Can anyone give me a single good reason why that should be the case? What is that adding to the game?

How about ascending to an emperor means that one must prove one need not: participate in trade; answer the phone; Let the dog out;

There are at least three reasons, although I would argue that none of those three are good reasons.

It also no longer makes any sense from a lore perspective. Ascending to emperor is really a one time thing, doing it four times doesn't make sense.

I think the bottom line justification of Labyrinth is that the loathsome content is done. The ascendancy points are a critical part of the game. Fixing this would be more effort than GGG up to this point of time was willing to dedicate.

It makes sense to do it multiple times as your gaining more and more power every time (up to 4 times)

If you want to make an argument, that maybe you should have the option to get the points leading up to the highest one you do, maybe, but that leads down a slippery slope that GGG can't then balance the leveling content for you having the AC points at a certain time.


In terms of trade, they simply need to enable trading without being in the same instance, allowing you to trade in the 3 zones prior to the boss and in the last zone (if necessary)

As far as answering the phone, you can call people back you know. If its so crucial that you are expecting a call you can't miss, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing a video game.

Letting the dog out is also something you can plan for, but you know why would you have personal responsibility when its so much easier to makeup bullshit excuses for not wanting to do the lab.



Ultimately, aside from AC class changes themselves, I think they are done with changing the lab. Seems like your o mighty quest is over, without you getting what you want.

technically since the last lab was added AFTER THE FACT the Merciless should be the only one that exists .

Oh and I was forced against my will to have to do uber today for a third character. Can we at least get the points after the first per season automatically.

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goetzjam wrote:

Ultimately, aside from AC class changes themselves, I think they are done with changing the lab. Seems like your o mighty quest is over, without you getting what you want.

This (extremely typical) attitude is why these threads are good popcorn fodder but little else:

People are more interested in asserting that the other person is wrong (or bad, or lazy, or a liar) than in actually discussing and improving the game. Kind of reminds me of U.S. politics.

In fact GGG has made many, many content-related (i.e., not just number adjustments) tweaks to the lab since its release which were in direct response to both specific and non-specific complaints, largely oriented toward trying to change it from an ends-oriented chore into a fun process. Now, you may not think that they've succeeded completely, but in any case the attempt to do so represents a win for both sides of the argument, because the intrinsic experience of running the Lab has been improved for everyone.

If it can be improved even further, all the better. Also a win for all players.