ALL HAIL PRESIDENT TRUMP

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faerwin wrote:

evidence was already given, you refused to accept it. Huge difference.

Not really. We got that one event which happened 2 years ago and... that's basically it? On the other hand we have official stats. Hmmm.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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faerwin wrote:

evidence was already given, you refused to accept it. Huge difference.

Are you talking about Jimbo? Because I linked ten recent, easily googled news articles that were either discussing prejudice against white men or were that prejudice themselves.

Defenders of racism want to pretend it doesn't exist as they desperately search for evidence that people are being racist in the other direction — this justifies fighting fire with fire. I'm not saying most Americans are racist against whites or sexist against males, I'm saying it's tolerated by pretty much everybody, which is a different thing. For example, in the movie blacKKLlansman they depicted only one cop openly racist against black people, but the rest of the force seemed to be unaware or tolerant. I AM accusing most Americans of being aware and tolerant of racism against white people.

I'm talking about the fact (at this point, yes, it's a fact) that the data for hateful crimes is unusable.

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faerwin wrote:

I'm talking about the fact (at this point, yes, it's a fact) that the data for hateful crimes is unusable.

You, as that other guy, have also failed to show how hate crime data collection is so flawed in the US but not flawed in Canada to explain away an almost 3x difference. Hint: tiny states having less reported hate crimes than big states is not evidence of that. Since you can't provide evidence, you calling it a fact seems a bit desperate.

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Xavderion wrote:

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rojimboo wrote:

On the side having a convo with Xav who requires extraordinary evidence for something that doesn't need it, whereas the other side can say the most ridiculous things without a shred of proof expect MUH GUT FEEFEES

One solid piece of evidence would suffice. And I know that you personally don't need evidence because you're an ideologue.

You might wanna stop throwing accusations around, since you can't even count.

But yeah sure, Canada has 9 times more hate crimes than the US, a far more violent place to begin with, and is thus clearly more racist than a place with rampant white nationalism.

Sure sure, I believe you.

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Turtledove wrote:

Regarding the assertion that "most Americans of being aware and tolerant of racism against white people", sorry that is false. During my career as a manager for a large software engineering firm, I saw plenty examples of discrimination against non-whites and women. This was a company that had very strict rules against such discrimination and the company took those rules very seriously. Yet real discrimination still existed there. I never saw any discrimination against white males there. Just to be clear, I'm a white male and this idea of widespread racism and sexism against white males is silly.

Turtledove, I don't know exactly how old you are, but I know it's roughly retirement age. What I'm talking about is a relatively new development — more than 20 years ago it existed almost solely in the minds of activist professors, and it didn't really pick up steam until about 2010 or so. But by now, thanks to media hysteria beginning in 2016, it's completely status quo.

I cited evidence. Here it is again:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Just a little light reading: Axios, Bustle, CNN, The Denver Post, The New York Times, Politico, RealClear Politics, Slate, The Washington Examiner, and The Washington Post.

Every one of these ten recent articles, from media outlets big and small, is either reporting on bigotry against white males in a tolerant manner, or is bigotry against white males. You can detect this easily by applying a simple anti-bias filter: replace all instances of "white" with "person of color," "male" with "female," etc, and vice versa.

I don't believe for a second you would read a NYT headline that read "Should a black woman be the face of the Republican Party in 2024?" with interviews where people expressed their hesitation regarding such an outcome, and not think to yourself that the article was covering racist and sexist attitudes.

Get with the times, Grandpa. You're living in the past.

I totally agree that we've had the opposite problem, and worse, in the past. In a way we still do: as the Unite the Right rallies unfortunately showed, the rise of anti-white racism does not mean the death of pro-white racism. Each have their own centers of influence. But overall, we pushed the pendulum past the equilibrium point. I don't even regret that — we should have moved the pendulum from where it was and in the direction we did, and I'm not perfectionist about progress. But since then we have been willfully ignorant or tolerant of the new problem, and that is not okay.

the evidence is in how disparate the data is from state to state. You can expect a few points of difference here and there but not go to nearly 0 for many MANY states.

Go read it again.

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rojimboo wrote:

You might wanna stop throwing accusations around, since you can't even count.

hahahahaha

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rojimboo wrote:

But yeah sure, Canada has 9 times more hate crimes than the US

That's nonsense which you made up. Stop fighting yourself.

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rojimboo wrote:

a far more violent place to begin with

How is that an indicator for racism? Also the vast majority of violence in the US is black on black or white on white.

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rojimboo wrote:

and is thus clearly more racist than a place with rampant white nationalism.

Still zero evidence of that. That one event that happened two years ago is not evidence of rampant white nationalism lmao.

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faerwin wrote:

the evidence is in how disparate the data is from state to state. You can expect a few points of difference here and there but not go to nearly 0 for many MANY states.

Go read it again.

Same goes for Canada though, which means it's not a good argument. Do you have some actual evidence?

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Xavderion wrote:

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rojimboo wrote:

You might wanna stop throwing accusations around, since you can't even count.

hahahahaha

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rojimboo wrote:

But yeah sure, Canada has 9 times more hate crimes than the US

That's nonsense which you made up. Stop fighting yourself.

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rojimboo wrote:

a far more violent place to begin with

How is that an indicator for racism? Also the vast majority of violence in the US is black on black or white on white.

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rojimboo wrote:

and is thus clearly more racist than a place with rampant white nationalism.

Still zero evidence of that. That one event that happened two years ago is not evidence of rampant white nationalism lmao.

I've decided upon certain criteria that I will use to decide whether I will converse with someone.

Ability to perform simple arithmetic maths on a calculator is my new requirement.

You fail Xav, yet are still convinced you are right.

Not much more to say.

Ta ta.

Not that it's really my business, but…

The 2017 FBI hate crimes statistics report enough agencies participating according to standard to account for roughly 304 million of the United States' 326 million 2017 population. The non-participating agencies do seem to fall in traditionally pro-white racist (but only rumored to be currently pro-white racist) states, such as Alabama with about 60% participation.

There's two tensions here:
1. The data is incomplete and doesn't give insight into hate crimes in some mostly rural, non-participating areas — let's call these The Outlands — and
2. The data is complete enough to cover 93% of the United States by population, so we should be able to say something about the United States based on it.

My compromise would be to divide the US into two indistinct regions — The Outlands, and "Non-Outlands America." We have no data on hate crimes in the Outlands, so we can only speculate. However, we have all law enforcement agencies from Non-Outlands America reporting, and assuming we use the slightly lower population (304 million, not 326 million) in our per capita math, I think it's fair to make conclusions about the vast majority of the US experience with hate crimes.

Canada had a hate crime rate of 56.732 per million people in 2017.
The Non-Outlands US had a hate crime rate of 51.355 per million people in 2017. This doesn't use the number in Xav's chart because it is misleading: the Canadian chart measures hate crimes while Xav's number was for FBI reported hate crime incidents, each of which can consist of multiple hate crimes.

The overall 2017 hate crime rate for the US in 2017 is unknown. However, it's likely that it is still less than Canada. The US Outlands would require a hate crime rate of over 132 per million people to make the nation's tied — more than double the Canadian rate. While possible, this isn't reasonable to believe without evidence.

Lastly, it's worth noting that the hate crime laws in Canada include certain speech laws that aren't prosecuted in the US due to protection under the First Amendment. This means certain categories of Canadian hate crime simply aren't hatr crime in the US. It's unclear what percentage of hate crimes Canada are actually thoughtcrimes.

TL;DR: Hate crime rates in Canada and in the US are pretty close to even, but Canada jails more people for saying naughty words.