New player feedback, reasons I stopped playing

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Turtledove wrote:

There you go, once again spewing forth nonsense. I didn't see anyone say they were surprised to see puzzles in *RPGs.

Read the OP again.

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widardd wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

There you go, once again spewing forth nonsense. I didn't see anyone say they were surprised to see puzzles in *RPGs.

Read the OP again.

Here's what is said in the OP.

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4. Labyrinths

Matter of taste, obviously. But I really didn't expect a game mode like labs in PoE. Obstacle simulator 2000. Sorry.
In my opinion labs are so different from the rest of the game, that rewards like ascendancy class progression should be obtainable by farming difficult maps or something else.

He did not state that he was surprised to see puzzles. As I explained to you, some puzzles does not change the game mode.

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Some traps in "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play is "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play with traps thrown in.

You stated that my statement was obvious to you. Yet you still seem to either be or pretend to be misunderstanding because you keep misstating what people are saying.

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Turtledove wrote:

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OP is calling it a game mode even though it's just an area with puzzles where killing mobs doesn't matter at all outside of the big bad dude at the end.

I wouldn't call it a different game mode, it's just a puzzle room where mobs do spawn but all you do is kill them to focus on the puzzle in front of you.

This is where I struggle to follow, because this sort of thing is very common for this type of game and I am surprised someone who fell in love with the genre at some point is not only not used to it but not even expecting it.

I would like to be able to understand this perspective and how it came into existence.

My gaming background doesn't help me in this regard so I am interested in learning about his gaming background.

I hope this is as neutral and non-offensive as possible now.

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widardd wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

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OP is calling it a game mode even though it's just an area with puzzles where killing mobs doesn't matter at all outside of the big bad dude at the end.

I wouldn't call it a different game mode, it's just a puzzle room where mobs do spawn but all you do is kill them to focus on the puzzle in front of you.

This is where I struggle to follow, because this sort of thing is very common for this type of game and I am surprised someone who fell in love with the genre at some point is not only not used to it but not even expecting it.

I would like to be able to understand this perspective and how it came into existence.

My gaming background doesn't help me in this regard so I am interested in learning about his gaming background.

I hope this is as neutral and non-offensive as possible now.

Game mode obviously conflates with game play in his context. To me and many others, labyrinth IS a different game play or game mode. When the focus switches from kill-monsters-get-loot to traps then the game becomes a different game like an "Obstacle simulator 2000" as the OP called it. I do slightly disagree with that name though, better would be Obstacle simulator 1990. To me labyrinth is not fun horrible crap game play. I've played other trap games, not my favorite genre, but almost all other such games that I have played are far better than the loathsome labyrinth, Prince of Persia, Frogger, Mario, Tomb Raider, etc..

GGG has stated in the past that labyrinth is a different kind of game play. As another example, GGG played up the Prince of Persia likeness when selling the labyrinth release prior to that release by linking to release previews that said labyrinth was Prince of Persia like. If it doesn't feel like a different game to you, it doesn't mean that we're wrong and you're right or vice versa. It just means that different people can have different perceptions likes and dislikes.

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widardd wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

...

OP is calling it a game mode even though it's just an area with puzzles where killing mobs doesn't matter at all outside of the big bad dude at the end.

I wouldn't call it a different game mode, it's just a puzzle room where mobs do spawn but all you do is kill them to focus on the puzzle in front of you.

This is where I struggle to follow, because this sort of thing is very common for this type of game and I am surprised someone who fell in love with the genre at some point is not only not used to it but not even expecting it.

I would like to be able to understand this perspective and how it came into existence.

My gaming background doesn't help me in this regard so I am interested in learning about his gaming background.

I hope this is as neutral and non-offensive as possible now.

The labyrinth is a great addition to the game (which brings a different experience, instead of just kill kill kill, you have to think what to do next each room, each challenge, thinking is GOOD in games btw), people must learn how to deal with loss, considering with a bit of experience and a decent build, it will be easily done, just read a guide or watch someone do it in twitch/youtube with the most recent patch... There are plenty of ways/builds that can complete it.

The puzzles as well, there are plenty of patterns you can learn and once you've learnt them, the only thing that can kill you is Huge lagspikes, or tons of bad luck + bad build* + panicking maybe hahaha (low Effective HP + no regeneration)*. Also i bet there is plenty of people using abyssus dying to traps, well guess what, traps do physical damage, so abyssus is 40-50% increased LOL.

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The_Risen wrote:

The labyrinth is a great addition to the game (which brings a different experience, instead of just kill kill kill, you have to think what to do next each room, each challenge, thinking is GOOD in games btw), people must learn how to deal with loss, considering with a bit of experience and a decent build, it will be easily done, just read a guide or watch someone do it in twitch/youtube with the most recent patch... There are plenty of ways/builds that can complete it.

The puzzles as well, there are plenty of patterns you can learn and once you've learnt them, the only thing that can kill you is Huge lagspikes, or tons of bad luck + bad build* + panicking maybe hahaha (low Effective HP + no regeneration)*. Also i bet there is plenty of people using abyssus dying to traps, well guess what, traps do physical damage, so abyssus is 40-50% increased LOL.

It is great that some people enjoy labyrinth. It is why the main touted "fixes" to labyrinth are to make labyrinth optional. That way people that enjoy it can still play it as much as they like. SET FREE THE ASCENDANCY POINTS (or rework the lab) [New ascension methods/lab rework ideas]

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The_Risen wrote:

The labyrinth is a great addition to the game (which brings a different experience, instead of just kill kill kill, you have to think what to do next each room, each challenge, thinking is GOOD in games btw), people must learn how to deal with loss, considering with a bit of experience and a decent build, it will be easily done, just read a guide or watch someone do it in twitch/youtube with the most recent patch... There are plenty of ways/builds that can complete it.

The puzzles as well, there are plenty of patterns you can learn and once you've learnt them, the only thing that can kill you is Huge lagspikes, or tons of bad luck + bad build* + panicking maybe hahaha (low Effective HP + no regeneration)*. Also i bet there is plenty of people using abyssus dying to traps, well guess what, traps do physical damage, so abyssus is 40-50% increased LOL.

If only that would be true...

The gauntlets are either too monotonous and simple, or at times nearly impossible to not get hit without abusing a movement skill or having a ridiculous movement rate. Traps, with the exception of the burning lava pits and the moving pillar don't interact enough with the monsters. Visibility is a "hit and miss" at times. And some of us are not finding trap gameplay that doesn't improve the experience by forcing us to really THINK an enticing experience, but instead a very boring, tiring and unsatisfying one instead.

The sad thing, is that instead of doubling down on "Labyrinth" strengths, and further improve it to a "memorable status", GGG prefered to overnerf to linearity the first 2 runs. And for the last 2, additional "incentives" bribe the players to tolerate the current underwhelming status.

"Labyrinth" is the part of PoE that had and still has the most potential to be an extraordinary experience. Unfortunately, it's not the case for the current iteration...

PS: This is coming from a person that played the "Labyrinth" at launch for the regular 3 runs and then for "Uber Lab" and still managed to complete it although 2 of the 4 ascendend characters were using that Abyssus...

Surprisingly good feedback, in my opinion! Unlike the usual whining of most ragequitters.

I agree with most of the points (except the Lab). While none of that made me consider quitting, he makes a lot of sense. I had very similar feelings when I started playing PoE, and most of those things still bug me.

GGG, please listen to that guy.