New player feedback, reasons I stopped playing

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germanstudent wrote:

But I really didn't expect a game mode like labs in PoE. Obstacle simulator 2000. Sorry.

Traps are a pretty fundamental part of *RPGs, which ones did you play prior where you never encountered them?

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widardd wrote:

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germanstudent wrote:

But I really didn't expect a game mode like labs in PoE. Obstacle simulator 2000. Sorry.

Traps are a pretty fundamental part of *RPGs, which ones did you play prior where you never encountered them?

You're setting up a false dichotomy, with a side helping of snark.

According to you, either the OP shouldn't be surprised to have a play experience like lab in POE or they have no experience playing *RPGs (cutting through your snark). But, traps are typically an environmental hazard in other *RPGs, and not the focus the way they are in POE's platform mini-game commonly known as lab.

"Obstacle simulator 2000" is actually a pretty clever nickname for lab.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

According to you, either the OP shouldn't be surprised to have a play experience like lab in POE or they have no experience playing *RPGs (cutting through your snark).

I never said any of that, I just pointed out that traps are a common part of *RPGs and wanted to know why he's surprised. (because I am having trouble comprehending his perspective)

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

But, traps are typically an environmental hazard in other *RPGs, and not the focus the way they are in POE's platform mini-game commonly known as lab.

This is why I asked what he played before because for me not having puzzle minigames involving traps in *RPGs would be a very extreme outlier.

Good day, sir.

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widardd wrote:

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

According to you, either the OP shouldn't be surprised to have a play experience like lab in POE or they have no experience playing *RPGs (cutting through your snark).

I never said any of that, I just pointed out that traps are a common part of *RPGs and wanted to know why he's surprised. (because I am having trouble comprehending his perspective)

Some traps in "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play is "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play with traps thrown in. When the focus is on traps and not "kill-monsters-get-loot" then it is NOT "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play. It is trap game play with some crappy kill monsters to refill flasks in it. Trap game play is NOT "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play.

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Turtledove wrote:

Some traps in "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play is "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play with traps thrown in. When the focus is on traps and not "kill-monsters-get-loot" then it is NOT "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play. It is trap game play with some crappy kill monsters to refill flasks in it. Trap game play is NOT "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play.

Ok, why do you think it has to be one dimensional "kill-monsters-get-loot" gameplay and nothing else?

You're basically asking for a very shallow and dull game here.

Should trading and crafting also be banished because it's not part of the "kill-monsters-get-loot" gameplay?

I am currently replaying the whole Borderlands series with friends, one can argue it barely fits the *RPG category, but even though it is fastpaced there's a surprising amount of traps, levers, puzzles and platforming in there.

Why don't you appreciate variety but instead try to get rid of something that's always been there?

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widardd wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Some traps in "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play is "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play with traps thrown in. When the focus is on traps and not "kill-monsters-get-loot" then it is NOT "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play. It is trap game play with some crappy kill monsters to refill flasks in it. Trap game play is NOT "kill-monsters-get-loot" game play.

Ok, why do you think it has to be one dimensional "kill-monsters-get-loot" gameplay and nothing else?

You're basically asking for a very shallow and dull game here.

Should trading and crafting also be banished because it's not part of the "kill-monsters-get-loot" gameplay?

I am currently replaying the whole Borderlands series with friends, one can argue it barely fits the *RPG category, but even though it is fastpaced there's a surprising amount of traps, levers, puzzles and platforming in there.

Why don't you appreciate variety but instead try to get rid of something that's always been there?

Three posts, two false dichotomies.

First you make a snarky post to the OP which sets up a false dichotomy, then claim you were just asking an innocent question. If that was your intent, by the way, then you could have posted "I'm confused about why lab is not enjoyable for you in this game if you have experience with traps in other *RPGs" instead of what you posted.

Second, you set up another false dichotomy between lab as it has been put into POE and having a "one-dimensional ... very shallow and dull game". I'm certain you're more than intelligent enough to realize that there are plenty of options other than the simple dichotomy you're setting forth.

For the record, I've always felt that in other *RPGs I've played, and I've been playing them for decades, that traps were an enhancement to the game and not a detriment. POE stands alone for me in how traps make the game worse, instead of better.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

First you make a snarky post (...)

You really need to fix your antenna, there is nothing snarky.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

If that was your intent, by the way, then you could have posted "I'm confused about why lab is not enjoyable for you in this game if you have experience with traps in other *RPGs" instead of what you posted.

So just because I refuse to be ultra defensive all the time because some folks get easily offended, my post is automatically "snarky"?

I am tired of starting my sentences with things like "No offense OP, but if I may ask....".

If you decide to be offended, for whatever reason, so be it.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Second, you set up another false dichotomy between lab as it has been put into POE and having a "one-dimensional ... very shallow and dull game".

I am not the one setting up dichotomies here, please have a look again what turtledove wrote.
He's basically argueing that anything except "kill" and "loot" has no place in *RPGs.

Never did I say anything about how lab has been put into the game (it could be optional, for example), you're again seeing ghosts, it's getting old.

I'll ignore what followed after, maybe have a look at the mirror next time you want to accuse someone of being snarky.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

For the record, I've always felt that in other *RPGs I've played, and I've been playing them for decades, that traps were an enhancement to the game and not a detriment. POE stands alone for me in how traps make the game worse, instead of better.

For me labyrinth is an enhancement. PoE has become so fast, player power so insane that tactical/slow gameplay focusing on exploration rather than body count is basically gone.

If labyrinth wasn't in the game I would get burned out way faster and have to take breaks all the time (probably playing more turn based *RPGs).

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widardd wrote:

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

Second, you set up another false dichotomy between lab as it has been put into POE and having a "one-dimensional ... very shallow and dull game".

I am not the one setting up dichotomies here, please have a look again what turtledove wrote.
He's basically argueing that anything except "kill" and "loot" has no place in *RPGs.

Never did I say anything about how lab has been put into the game (it could be optional, for example), you're again seeing ghosts, it's getting old.

I'll ignore what followed after, maybe have a look at the mirror next time you want to accuse someone of being snarky.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

For the record, I've always felt that in other *RPGs I've played, and I've been playing them for decades, that traps were an enhancement to the game and not a detriment. POE stands alone for me in how traps make the game worse, instead of better.

For me labyrinth is an enhancement. PoE has become so fast, player power so insane that tactical/slow gameplay focusing on exploration rather than body count is basically gone.

If labyrinth wasn't in the game I would get burned out way faster and have to take breaks all the time (probably playing more turn based *RPGs).

You're still playing the false dichotomy card. It is not a choice between "kill" and "loot" and nothing else. Contrary to your false assertion I never said anything like that. The OP stated labyrinth trap game play is a different kind of a mini-game inside PoE. That is what I'm trying to explain to you because you claimed you didn't understand.

I think you really probably understood but are just being argumentative as implied by EnjoyThJourney. Or alternatively we're both wrong and you're just not the sharpest tool in the shed?

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Turtledove wrote:

It is not a choice between "kill" and "loot" and nothing else. Contrary to your false assertion I never said anything like that.

If that's the case I fail to see the point of your previous comment, I concluded that you stated the obvious to emphasize the obscurity of lab's gameplay in PoE. I never said I don't understand the difference between mapping and running lab, I wanted to understand how one can not only be surprised to see puzzles in *RPGs but even dislike them.

Now I'm puzzled why this question is so hard to answer.

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widardd wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

It is not a choice between "kill" and "loot" and nothing else. Contrary to your false assertion I never said anything like that.

If that's the case I fail to see the point of your previous comment, I concluded that you stated the obvious to emphasize the obscurity of lab's gameplay in PoE. I never said I don't understand the difference between mapping and running lab, I wanted to understand how one can not only be surprised to see puzzles in *RPGs but even dislike them.

Now I'm puzzled why this question is so hard to answer.

There you go, once again spewing forth nonsense. I didn't see anyone say they were surprised to see puzzles in *RPGs.