HOW TO: BE RICH IN PoE. Economy Class: Flipping 101

The risk with asynchronous trading is that it makes the market 'too efficient'.

Flippers can dedicate time and/or script to snipe listings using automated tools and more easily manipulate the market. While this problem already exists in some form with the existence of poe.trade and 'price fixers', at least the market manipulator isn't able to 'force' items off the market through an automated process. They still need to find the listing, engage the seller, purchase the item, and then relist it at their price. With asynchronous trading, all this can be automated, which will basically wreck the economy.

As to the actual game, asynchronous trading would allow access to build enabling items much more easily and much sooner than self-found or with the 'barter and trade' we currently have. This dramatically increases the player power curve and trivializes the content, which was designed and 'balanced' against item drop rates/randomization of stats. Having powerful items easily accessible is fun for a few hours, but then what would you do? There goes game longevity, as there is no longer a 'holy grail' to aspire to obtain, and then people will drop the game like a hot potato. Not a good thing for a F2P game. And yes, I already hear the cries of 'but I'm bored of the league by week two already!', well, yeah. That's because GGG went the way of bulletstorm hell style gameplay instead of what I hoped it would be back in the day...

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Garr0t wrote:

The risk with asynchronous trading is that it makes the market 'too efficient'.

Flippers can dedicate time and/or script to snipe listings using automated tools and more easily manipulate the market. While this problem already exists in some form with the existence of poe.trade and 'price fixers', at least the market manipulator isn't able to 'force' items off the market through an automated process. They still need to find the listing, engage the seller, purchase the item, and then relist it at their price. With asynchronous trading, all this can be automated, which will basically wreck the economy.

As to the actual game, asynchronous trading would allow access to build enabling items much more easily and much sooner than self-found or with the 'barter and trade' we currently have. This dramatically increases the player power curve and trivializes the content, which was designed and 'balanced' against item drop rates/randomization of stats. Having powerful items easily accessible is fun for a few hours, but then what would you do? There goes game longevity, as there is no longer a 'holy grail' to aspire to obtain, and then people will drop the game like a hot potato. Not a good thing for a F2P game. And yes, I already hear the cries of 'but I'm bored of the league by week two already!', well, yeah. That's because GGG went the way of bulletstorm hell style gameplay instead of what I hoped it would be back in the day...

Every problem has a solution. E.g. Not if you only allowed say 10 trades a day then its not even worth programming a trade bot.

Positive of automated outweighs negative IMO. Like no price fixers scamming ppl into listing low. Like can buy one of a kinds GG items even if player is offline.

I hear ya. I personally would like to see an 'in-house' trading solution at some point. I'm just not sure how GGG is going to surmount the power creep issue unless they plan to revamp the whole game...

Which, coincidentally, is why I believe they haven't released their own trading system. I mean, we've been clamouring for a trading system since 2012. Anyone else remember promises of offline trading via the forums?

People like power creep too much to take it back to old days/old pace but I have long suggested monster power. Worked for D3.

D3 has a very familiar pattern to me as this game is having.

I played on launch when maps took 30 minutes. Elites took 5 and would enrage and heal like crazy etc. (here maps took about 15 when i started)

Then D3 gave power creep every patch with better items. (here we do it with items and gems)

Then at 1.5 D3 introduced MP and later in 2.0 Torment power. Here we have yet to do so and anyone with a 10 chaos tabula rapes everything till high maps. I think this is a mistake. Leads to boredom quick.

I like to see it this way: flippers get some value from encouraging trading.

They are like out little bitches :) and they are proud about it.

Fluidifing the economy of a trade to win game like little ùùùs :)

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Garr0t wrote:

The risk with asynchronous trading is that it makes the market 'too efficient'.

Flippers can dedicate time and/or script to snipe listings using automated tools and more easily manipulate the market. While this problem already exists in some form with the existence of poe.trade and 'price fixers', at least the market manipulator isn't able to 'force' items off the market through an automated process. They still need to find the listing, engage the seller, purchase the item, and then relist it at their price. With asynchronous trading, all this can be automated, which will basically wreck the economy.

As to the actual game, asynchronous trading would allow access to build enabling items much more easily and much sooner than self-found or with the 'barter and trade' we currently have. This dramatically increases the player power curve and trivializes the content, which was designed and 'balanced' against item drop rates/randomization of stats. Having powerful items easily accessible is fun for a few hours, but then what would you do? There goes game longevity, as there is no longer a 'holy grail' to aspire to obtain, and then people will drop the game like a hot potato. Not a good thing for a F2P game. And yes, I already hear the cries of 'but I'm bored of the league by week two already!', well, yeah. That's because GGG went the way of bulletstorm hell style gameplay instead of what I hoped it would be back in the day...

Limiting total number of trades per week is one solution to trade bots just using the B/O price to buy from AFK seller. The average player isn't making dozens of trades per day so a limit of 42 trades per week would be fair if we could buy from AFK seller. Without this only the full time players benefit and the rest of us are screwed. That makes the current trade system worse than nothing. I want to buy a few items now and then, not be a damned commodity flipper. The few who do should have a buy/sell trade limit per week and can't wreck the PoE economy by running trade bots. But the full time players/flippers are always going to complain that buying from an AFK seller would wreck the PoE economy but in reality it would wreck their ability to manipulate the market and get rich. That's why they always complain and so far they've been able to convince GGG that doing nothing to improve trading is better than fixing the "seller is AFK" problem.

The whole point of trading is to be able to buy better gear or specific build enabling gear since the rng is such that we can play forever and never get specific items to drop. If the limited time players can't find an online seller of a desired item when online then PoE trade system is a failure which is what it currently is. A huge FAILURE!

Buying from an AFK seller isn't suddenly going to cause power creep to skyrocket. GGG has been doing that on their own starting with Ascendancy and ramping up the playing speed.

Final thought is we know GGG loses more players do to QoP problems and bad rng than power creep. I wonder how many players GGG loses because of trade failure rage.

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Arrowneous wrote:

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Garr0t wrote:

The risk with asynchronous trading is that it makes the market 'too efficient'.

Flippers can dedicate time and/or script to snipe listings using automated tools and more easily manipulate the market. While this problem already exists in some form with the existence of poe.trade and 'price fixers', at least the market manipulator isn't able to 'force' items off the market through an automated process. They still need to find the listing, engage the seller, purchase the item, and then relist it at their price. With asynchronous trading, all this can be automated, which will basically wreck the economy.

As to the actual game, asynchronous trading would allow access to build enabling items much more easily and much sooner than self-found or with the 'barter and trade' we currently have. This dramatically increases the player power curve and trivializes the content, which was designed and 'balanced' against item drop rates/randomization of stats. Having powerful items easily accessible is fun for a few hours, but then what would you do? There goes game longevity, as there is no longer a 'holy grail' to aspire to obtain, and then people will drop the game like a hot potato. Not a good thing for a F2P game. And yes, I already hear the cries of 'but I'm bored of the league by week two already!', well, yeah. That's because GGG went the way of bulletstorm hell style gameplay instead of what I hoped it would be back in the day...

Limiting total number of trades per week is one solution to trade bots just using the B/O price to buy from AFK seller. The average player isn't making dozens of trades per day so a limit of 42 trades per week would be fair if we could buy from AFK seller. Without this only the full time players benefit and the rest of us are screwed. That makes the current trade system worse than nothing. I want to buy a few items now and then, not be a damned commodity flipper. The few who do should have a buy/sell trade limit per week and can't wreck the PoE economy by running trade bots. But the full time players/flippers are always going to complain that buying from an AFK seller would wreck the PoE economy but in reality it would wreck their ability to manipulate the market and get rich. That's why they always complain and so far they've been able to convince GGG that doing nothing to improve trading is better than fixing the "seller is AFK" problem.

The whole point of trading is to be able to buy better gear or specific build enabling gear since the rng is such that we can play forever and never get specific items to drop. If the limited time players can't find an online seller of a desired item when online then PoE trade system is a failure which is what it currently is. A huge FAILURE!

Buying from an AFK seller isn't suddenly going to cause power creep to skyrocket. GGG has been doing that on their own starting with Ascendancy and ramping up the playing speed.

Final thought is we know GGG loses more players do to QoP problems and bad rng than power creep. I wonder how many players GGG loses because of trade failure rage.

I can guarantee you that I've made ALOT more money flipping in games with ingame Auction houses, because you can easily scam people off with those.
Let me give you an example of this game called ArcheAge I used to play, and was one of the richest player on my server.

Wool was an item used in crafting, wool costed something like 2 silver per, and people would sell them in stacks of 1000, so theres, 2000 silver, or 200gold.

I would put 1 wool up for 10 copper, people would put up 1000 wool up for 10000 copper, or well...

10 gold.

Profit margin: 190gold per stack.

The reason is because ingame auction houses always gives you the automated price of the LOWEST current price of an item. If you are too lazy to manually look up the said item and just auto-list it.
You are getting scammed, HARD. and that is how inflation happens sooooo much.

The way PoE is setup with poe.trade, that cannot happen, the buyer and/or seller knows what they are getting themselves into when tradding.

The poe.trade index shows lists of hundreds of listings, therefore, market bubbles happen alot less often and require multiple players and lots of actually preparation, in a game like ArcheAge, it was commodity, with poe.trade, it's almost impossible, unless you NEVER scroll down past the first page.

Also, limiting the amount of trades possible is RETARDED in a game like Path of Exile, where you can buy fusings, 10 chaos at a time, or 100 chaos at time, or 1 exalt at a time.

If the average fusings required ofr a 6link is 1200, and you buy them 100 at a time.
After 10 tries in a day, you cannot try anymore, even if you might happen to have tons and tons of currency, that is limiting gameplay, and it's utterly retarded.

Also, limiting the amount of trades possible isn't a good idea, because if one bot can only trade 10x in a day, 100 bots can trade 1000 times in a day. And if a person has a single trading bot, they can have many.many.many.mannnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyy. it's called VMWare.

Lol this clown really made a topic and a vid to try to push a concept everyone with an IQ above room temperature already knows in "buy low, sell high". Just take a moment to imagine how sad of a life someone must lead to devote so much time and effort into accumulating pixels instead of actually playing the damn game.

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TheGreatestMemer wrote:

Also, limiting the amount of trades possible is RETARDED in a game like Path of Exile, where you can buy fusings, 10 chaos at a time, or 100 chaos at time, or 1 exalt at a time.

If the average fusings required ofr a 6link is 1200, and you buy them 100 at a time.
After 10 tries in a day, you cannot try anymore, even if you might happen to have tons and tons of currency, that is limiting gameplay, and it's utterly retarded.

Also, limiting the amount of trades possible isn't a good idea, because if one bot can only trade 10x in a day, 100 bots can trade 1000 times in a day. And if a person has a single trading bot, they can have many.many.many.mannnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyy. it's called VMWare.

this

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Slizzered wrote:

Lol this clown really made a topic and a vid to try to push a concept everyone with an IQ above room temperature already knows in "buy low, sell high". Just take a moment to imagine how sad of a life someone must lead to devote so much time and effort into accumulating pixels instead of actually playing the damn game.

Someone playing a video game is calling someone else playing the same game sad because they play it in a different way