Damage Over Time Changes - More Information Part 2

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Vipermagi wrote:

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mirificel wrote:

hmm it applies to the hit and it applies to the ignite that in my book is double dip

Then your book needs to be updated, I'm afraid.

since you are so helpful got one question for you, does the added fire from anger or the added fire to spells on weapons go to the base fire damage from where we start calculating our hit damage and our ignite damage?

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mirificel wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

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PayneK wrote:

So as i see you can still double dip if you take damage modifiers passives and fire damage passives to scale both the initial hit and the ignite.

Increased Fire Damage does apply to both the Hit and the Ignite damage. That is not what double-dipping means, though.

Double-dipping refers to a single value being affected by the same modifier twice. Under the current system, Increased Fire Damage applies twice to Ignite Damage (hit then dot) - under the new system, Increased Fire Damage only applies once (only dot).

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Oh yay DE on Attacks is back.

hmm it applies to the hit and it applies to the ignite that in my book is double dip sure it doesn't apply 2 times to the ignite anymore but now its 40% instead of 20% of the base fire damage and they said they are gonna buff fire passives in the tree so i will be flameblasting some more as usual feelsgood.

A good example of why the effect is very poorly named. It creates a lot of misunderstandings.

Now, at relatively low multiplier levels, there is actually little difference, as has been shown earlier. However, if you get to the point of having 'effective increased level' of around 1000%, the effects are quite dramatic.

Let us assume a hit of 1k, and 1000% increased scaling.

Old system: 7500 initial hit after mitigation, with an ignite of 56,250 per second
New system: 7500 initial hit after mitigation, with an ignite of 3000 per second

This is likely what people are referring to when they say they are going to lose 95% of their DPS. This is an example of exactly that.

Just as a counterexample, let us assume that you somehow had 0% increased damage, but 1000% increased burning damage (it only affects your ignite), and see how that is handled in each system.

Old system: 750 initial hit after mitigation, with an ignite of 1125 per second
New system: 750 initial hit after mitigation, with an ignite of 3000 per second

Therefore, we can see that if you focus on DoTs in the new build, you will get substantially better dps under the new system than you would have had under the old system. Of course, your overall dps under the old system would have been much higher given the mechanics of how to scale your DoTs.

The new system, however, certainly allows for much better balance of scaling. If, for example, you believe that DoTs expose a character to greater risk than direct damage (given that the mobs live longer), you can offer a greater damage bonus for the same investment (e.g., passive skill point, item affix, etc.). In fact, if you can quantify the risk--very difficult and likely subjective--then setting the bonus ratio to that quantification should result in a balanced risk/reward system.

so will this affect Righteous Fire builds in a good way or a bad way?

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mirificel wrote:

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Vipermagi wrote:

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mirificel wrote:

hmm it applies to the hit and it applies to the ignite that in my book is double dip

Then your book needs to be updated, I'm afraid.

since you are so helpful got one question for you, does the added fire from anger or the added fire to spells on weapons go to the base fire damage from where we start calculating our hit damage and our ignite damage?

I am not Vipermagi, and I am not completely sure, but my take is to use the graphics GGG proposed.

If Anger's damage is considered a 'base damage increase' then it should impact the calculation of the DoT. IOW, if Anger is currently affected by your 'increased Fire damage', it would make sense that Anger's bonus would carry over (at 40%) to your Ignite.

Having said that, I think it would behoove GGG to make this explicit. There are several ways to do so.

Having separate lines on a skill gem would be one way, each with their tooltip damage. Even if other suggestions are not used, socketing the gem or unsocketing the gem would show you if the damage is changing.

Another idea which may have its own comprehension challenges is to list each DoT that can be placed by your skills as its own skill icon/tab. In this case, if the support gem shows on the DoT tab, then it applies. (This would not help the Anger case.)

Finally, just be wordier with descriptions. Again, GGG likely needs to add more terms to the game to capture this well. Differentiating between 'Base Damage' and 'Final Damage' would go a long way, as things that count as 'Base Damage' would contribute to the ignite damage, whereas things that do not count as 'Base Damage' would not.

How will Flameblast's "more spell damage for each stage" interact with ignite? Will the ignite be based on the first stage of flameblast or the stage it was released?
We will be changing Flameblast's "more spell damage for each stage" stat to a generic "more damage for each stage" stat that also affects the ignite.


sounds like flameblast is going to be the one of the best league starters again

So... poison BV builds are going to be obsolete, right?

Double dipping refer to a damage modifer apply to a hit once and DOT 2 times (thus the name double dipping) essential make it modifier your damage 3 times . So with this change generic modifiers will only apply to the hit once and DOT once .Of course modifiers like attack/spell will not work with the DOT because it's never worked with DOT before so why must it now ?


How hard is it to understand this change is just DOT scale from final hit damage to scale with base hit damage thus removing double dipping ? Maybe because I'm not a native English speaker so I misunderstood something but isn't this change really simple? Why do you guys need to make 4 post with hundred of papers for it?

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nevel214 wrote:

How will Flameblast's "more spell damage for each stage" interact with ignite? Will the ignite be based on the first stage of flameblast or the stage it was released?
We will be changing Flameblast's "more spell damage for each stage" stat to a generic "more damage for each stage" stat that also affects the ignite.


sounds like flameblast is going to be the one of the best league starters again

don't know needs to be seen, flameblast is losing control destruction and conc effect which will do nothing for the ignite damage we will have to see the tree changes and the new increase burning damage gem, the waiting game is real :)

Ok. No more double-dipping. Guess we got it now.

What about CI - changes (nerfs?) or buffs to life based builds?

Any other news?