I really hate lab

"

ewolow wrote:

"

mezmery wrote:

From my perspective as an old d2/LOD player, i dont remember anyone from top 200 ladder, who played without maphack (and chickedmod obviously)

Perhaps, but you did get banned for it. There also used to be multilogin cheats so you could trade with your alts or hold a game open.

Eventually people using these things got banned. It certainly wasn't encouraged or even allowed.

Personally I don't care about that, but people saying a game mechanic is wonderful, because they use those things is just asinine.

i dont remember anyone getting banned for anything except plain expoiting, and defientely not for chiken and maphack. also bots were ignored.

As I said, those information are really easily available on the net, they start building a game according to their vision, aiming at a niche market, I won't bother looking for it if on top of using fallacies you are making absolutely 0 effort, look for it yourself.
Plus basically all old players do know that.


The fallacies are the thing that you are making, and then accusing other's.
That's pretty pathetic to be honest.

Why poelab is there is pretty ... obvious, can you use your common sense for 5 seconds maybe ?
Again, not going to bother trying to explicitly explain everything to you here.
Hints : ladder, efficiency, farm, profit.

And most people just go for the easiest way available, period.
This is why people don't go for merc Malachai unless they want the challenge.

Even with limited time, let's assume that a casual takes .... 50 hours to reach maps ( yes, 50, and I bet some people take much more than that ).
What one hour for the 3 labs ? or even 2 ? It's close to nothing.
If you have limited time, you will see only a limited part of the game, and you can play without the ascendancy point if you choose so.

There are many areas where you probably have never been/tried before, and you want to access very badly one that you don't like ?
...............

"

mezmery wrote:

i dont remember anyone getting banned for anything except plain expoiting, and defientely not for chiken and maphack. also bots were ignored.

Perhaps later when bliz stopped giving a toss, but back in it's prime, peeps got banned left and right for maphack.

Case in point:

https://www.diabloii.net/forums/threads/map-hack-why-is-it-still-illegal.626900/

"

Fruz wrote:

As I said, those information are really easily available on the net, they start building a game according to their vision, aiming at a niche market, I won't bother looking for it if on top of using fallacies you are making absolutely 0 effort, look for it yourself.
Plus basically all old players do know that.

I'm not doing your work for you. You are the one making the assertion, you are the one that needs to back that up.

You cannot, because it most likely doesn't exist.

"

Fruz wrote:

The fallacies are the thing that you are making, and then accusing other's.
That's pretty pathetic to be honest.

Sigh. Yet another fallacy. This one called "Argument from fallacy" You cannot even point out what fallacy you think I'm using. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

"

Fruz wrote:

Why poelab is there is pretty ... obvious, can you use your common sense for 5 seconds maybe ?
Again, not going to bother trying to explicitly explain everything to you here.
Hints : ladder, efficiency, farm, profit.

I know why it's there, I'm asking you. You hints = "So people can do it faster". That was the answer you are trying so hard to avoid.

"

Fruz wrote:

And most people just go for the easiest way available, period.
This is why people don't go for merc Malachai unless they want the challenge.

I did merc malakai, and not for that reason. Take a look at my achievements for this league. And I consider myself casual, I guess.

"

Fruz wrote:

Even with limited time, let's assume that a casual takes .... 50 hours to reach maps ( yes, 50, and I bet some people take much more than that ).
What one hour for the 3 labs ? or even 2 ? It's close to nothing.
If you have limited time, you will see only a limited part of the game, and you can play without the ascendancy point if you choose so.

There are many areas where you probably have never been/tried before, and you want to access very badly one that you don't like ?
...............

So now it's 1 hour for all three labs? What happened to the only 5 minutes bs? You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that there are a lot of people that do not like the mechanics of lab and you want to wander off into some red herring about maps.

With limited time, time is better spent doing something constructive than sitting there waiting for a spike trap to cycle. Yes. Not a difficult concept to understand.

You know, when I use something well known ( basically common knowledge ) to make a point, if you don't get it, it's fine, I don't care.
"your work" lol ...

If you want to show everybody some ignorance on top of the fact that you are lying, it's your choice.
( Yeah, I don't like liars ).

Let me throw at your face the part where you were blatantly lying, before talking about you accusing others of making fallacies :

"

Fruz wrote:

"

ewolow wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

Lab does not gate relative to the builds, not more than maps, not more than malachai, etc ....
If you can't do it properly, it's your fault, that is very different.
But I guess that it is easier to tell yourself that it's not your fault because the lab is screwing up your whole build, better do that than try to understand I guess heh.

Strawman much? No one made this argument. At all. Nor did they say they can't do it. Clearly you want to make up your own arguments.

You suggest I'm posting fallacies while creating your own.

"strawman" ???

"

ewolow wrote:

This is why there is variance and mods to maps/zones. It's one thing to have counters and benefits to clearing an area, that's a completely different thing than having *required* content gated to only specific builds. From what I read, this is most certainly not an intention of Chris and the dev team.

One word here : pathetic.

So you mean that you are wasting everybody's time asking questions for no purpose ? ( I mean, you have been showing quite some ignorance before, so it's hard to tell what you would know or not know here tbh ).
Nice.

What do people care if you have done merc Malachai this league ? like seriously ? Oo
It is of absolutely no relevance here.



5 mins bs ?
Now you are trying to put words that I never said in my mouth ? More fallacies from you, the list goes on ....

Stop with the bad faith for a second, the time spent "waiting" for traps is really ridiculously low. That frustrates you, sure no problem.
But that part isn't about time.
You don't like the lab ?
We got that, you have been trying to make excuses as why the lab is so bad, showing that you just didn't understand it and were not good at it, and you seem to keep wanting to go that way and waste your "limited time" on the forums.
Good job.
Pretty toxic behaviour overall, you're not the only one around here doing that though.

PS : the time you took to write that last post is like ... more than all of the waiting time of one of my lab run put together.
*sigh*

"

Fruz wrote:

You know, when I use something well known ( basically common knowledge ) to make a point, if you don't get it, it's fine, I don't care.
"your work" lol ...

If you want to show everybody some ignorance on top of the fact that you are lying, it's your choice.
( Yeah, I don't like liars ).

Normally I would simply leave you be at this point and let forum trolls be forum trolls. (You know a forum troll when you have to resort to personal attacks. This truly shows the lack of depth and shallow arguments used.

"

Let me throw at your face the part where you were blatantly lying, before talking about you accusing others of making fallacies :
...
One word here : pathetic.

So you are uninformed therefore I am a liar? Got it.

Here, read:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1870097

"

Chris Wilson wrote:

although we do understand that Ascendancy classes have been so successful that they are no longer considered rewards but instead intrinsic parts of your character

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/intrinsic?s=t

"

intrinsic

[in-trin-sik, -zik]

See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
adjective
1.belonging to a thing by its very nature:

ie: REQUIRED.

Consider yourself informed.

"

So you mean that you are wasting everybody's time asking questions for no purpose ? ( I mean, you have been showing quite some ignorance before, so it's hard to tell what you would know or not know here tbh ).
Nice.

What do people care if you have done merc Malachai this league ? like seriously ? Oo
It is of absolutely no relevance here.

You brought up merc malachai, not me. Disassociative Disorder much? You suggested that "Casuals" whatever that means, don't do Merc Malachai. You were clearly wrong on that along with pretty much everything else.

"

Stop with the bad faith for a second, the time spent "waiting" for traps is really ridiculously low. That frustrates you, sure no problem.
But that part isn't about time.
You don't like the lab ?

Bad faith? I'm not the one ducking and dodging here, you are.

I tell you it's about time spent, you talk about time it takes, but you don't believe it's about time spent? wtf.

"

We got that, you have been trying to make excuses as why the lab is so bad, showing that you just didn't understand it and were not good at it, and you seem to keep wanting to go that way and waste your "limited time" on the forums.
Good job.
Pretty toxic behaviour overall, you're not the only one around here doing that though.

Now they are excuses? You got some balls talking about toxic behavior pal. I gave some pretty concise reasons why I don't like lab in it's current state, along with a lot of other people. Your primary intent has been nothing other than to shit all over those posts and you got the delusional gall to tell others they are toxic. Seriously, my co-workers looked over because you just literally made me laugh out loud.

If you haven't guessed by now, I'm at work. Otherwise I'd be playing and not wasting my time on the forums.

"

PS : the time you took to write that last post is like ... more than all of the waiting time of one of my lab run put together.
*sigh*

I type 60 wpm. No, it did not take me anywhere near that time.

Yep, lab sucks. I've now had multiple friends that started playing PoE quit because of lab. Best part is when they don't know there is several labs and complain about the first one.

But it seems it will stay and suck. Let's keep this shitty addition to the game mandatory since there is lore about ascendancy and Izaro yada yada in there that a few people care about.

"

ewolow wrote:

[...]

Waht the .... I exposed very clearly and obviously your lies
Let's quote them again :

And you actually want to deny it ?
Are you actually being serious ?
You do you have reading troubles ?
You did you a blatant lie, you did lie.
It's nothing personal, it's all about what you've said, you are the one bringing your own personal information about your life, age and whatever that nobody cares about, get real.


Also what is it about the intrinsic dimension of the lab ? I haven't said such things, because I do know what I say and I have no troubles being honest, not like what you have been doing here.
Fact is : You have never even reach level 80 in softcore, you have never reached a "character completion" point to start with, but you entitle yourself in doing something that you don't actually like instead ?
/rofl.


At this point it might be healthier for everybody here to consider what you are trolling, honestly.
And yes, you are the one ducking and dodging ( this one is so ironic it's mind blowing ), you are even trying to make people believe that you have not been lying here, which is hilarious.
So yes, without a doubt, you are being toxic here.
But keep telling yourself that you're a good guy and being constructive and good here, at this point I'm almost convinced that it is hopeless anyway.

By the way, yes, ~2 min in a lab run ( or we could compare 6 mins total to the whole game, that would be even better ) is so insignificant that it isn't worth considering, as obvious as that was, I know you didn't get it, but that's okay at this point.
And yes, 60wpm + quoting every single part does definitely take more time than the time waiting during trap patterns, unless you are being afk of course ( or putting absolutely no effort in it ).

"

Fruz wrote:

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

[...]

Before jumping in, trying to be condescending, you should probably have checked from the start of the argument :

"

torturo wrote:

The hardcore-ness of PoE is an outdated propaganda. Taking into account the game evolution, PoE stopped being hardcore since the end of 2013.

(This was the original statement that I was referring too.)

That would have saved you that embarrassing post.

With all due respect, Fruz, I think you need to grow a thicker skin. You have accused others of lying, of spreading fallacies, of posting "in bad faith" (a form of deception), of making pathetic posts (or being plain pathetic), of being ignorant, of not using common sense, of trolling, and of being toxic. All as a tactic to address someone who is disagreeing with you, and that's just what I've picked out of your posts over the past few pages of a single thread!

"

Fruz wrote:

/rofl

I think I can rest my case on that. Seriously, man. I'm sure you have enough self-awareness to see the irony here.

I, on the other hand, have accused you of misapplying a single word's meaning, and you immediately feel condescended toward. You know how that is described, right? "He can dish it out but he can't take it." Just sayin'. ;)

I am telling you exactly why your post was incoherent, in context.

Here is the post immediately above yours:

"

Turtledove wrote:

"

Fruz wrote:

But Torturo is right, it has became less and less hardcore, only just saying that Lab has nothing to do here because it gives players a hardcore-like experience is a blatant and pathetic lie, since the original state of the game is about providing a hardcore experience.

He was using Chris Wilson words when the Labyrinth was released. Chris said that the Labyrinth was intended to give softcore players the feeling of hardcore. Which in my opinion is one of the stupid things that GGG has probably ever said because if softcore players wanted to play hardcore then they wouldn't be playing softcore.

...to which you respond (nearly an hour later):

"

Fruz wrote:

See ? It's getting about splitting hairs now.
PoE naturally attracts people that are looking for at least a somewhat hardcore experience.
Such depths kinda goes with a hardcore experience since the amount of knowledge and room for mistake is really big.

So I would say that people that do not want anything like a hardcore experience are likely not playing PoE to start with.

This is why "hardcore" here is a purely subjective term that everybody can manipulate however they want.

PoE is already providing somewhat of a hardcore experience.
Lab enchances that feeling.
I don't see a problem here.

"hardcore" does not necessarily refer to the technical league type.

There is nothing "embarrassing" about trying to help you make sense. If my calling your posts incoherent because of your conflation of two different meanings applied to the same word is something you consider "condescending," then it is little wonder that you make the same mistake repeatedly.

Chris (and Turtledove, to whom you responded) wasn't talking about "hardcore" in the sense of "I'm so hardcore, bruh. Yeah!" but rather literally Harcore. As in, the Hardcore League. Understanding that fact is essential before you can even begin to grasp why non-hardcore players object to the Labyrinth.

Any time people are talking about the Labyrinth giving a hardcore-like play experience to softcore players, they are literally talking about the hardcore league. Sheesh. I DO feel like I'm being condescending now, spelling that out, but it seems that you do not realize this.

For the record, I do play hardcore, and I think the Labyrinth is shitty content for hardcore and softcore players both. But the reasons are distinct. Softcore players object to the hardcore nature of the Labyrinth, yes, but not in the casual-vs.-hardcore sense you (puzzlingly) insist upon using. Rather, they are puzzled at the logic of providing content they don't want, which is already available to them in another league if they DID want it, and then locking character development behind that content.

It's a fairly easy-to-understand objection, even if you don't share their view or agree with their conclusion.