[2.6] Ngamahu Molten strike / Cyclone combo | Fast Clearing | Deathless Shaper and t16s! | Videos

"

69wanted69 wrote:

"

KaothKodex wrote:

@krilox : why not using "Fury Bolts" anymore in your passive tree ? it looks good and he used it on your outdated PoePlanner tree link
(cc @69wanted69 idea ?)

what, he has it on his tree, idk what you're talking about
edit :if you're talking about on his char, he prob needed some skillpoint elsewhere, but his proposed tree does have it.

"

alexrov wrote:

The mechanics behind it

I've condensed the Cyclone proc and Molten Strike gems in the 6linked axe, since MS and Cyclone already utilize 4 of the same support gems. The cyclone itself is in 4-linked insanity gloves. The combo has enough dps to easily clear t16's and do great single target damage, in addition to freeing up the chest slot, enabling us to use Kaom's Heart.

Molten Strike does 94k damage (Fully buffed with flasks), hurls 10 projectiles per attack, and has 6.22 attacks per second, where many overlap.

Hideout with HoA and Flame golem only: 37010 dps Molten Strike
Added flasks: 58027 dps Molten strike
Fully buffed in map with flasks: 124230 dps Molten strike

I have with HoA and Flame golem 41245 dps Molten strike.
Using flask TOH and onslaught: 50356 dps Molten strike.
In maps fully buffed: 97700

You get to 58k just with flask and 124 fully buffed.
How the hell do you get to 58k just with flasks and 124k fully buffed?

I'm using 5 jewels, 3 of them having attack speed and life, flasks similar to yours.
Which flasks do you use? I do not have Dying sun and Sin rebirth.

Only those flasks make that difference?

"

KaothKodex wrote:

"

69wanted69 wrote:

"

KaothKodex wrote:

@krilox : why not using "Fury Bolts" anymore in your passive tree ? it looks good and he used it on your outdated PoePlanner tree link
(cc @69wanted69 idea ?)

what, he has it on his tree, idk what you're talking about
edit :if you're talking about on his char, he prob needed some skillpoint elsewhere, but his proposed tree does have it.

His proposed tree is not updated compared to the tree of his profile,
If you check the gear proposed + the proposed tree, he's missing some intel (104/111) to be able to equip the 111 intel gear proposed

So the tree on the profile is the updated one, with many differences, one of the difference is the Fury Bolt he does not pick anymore (picking more life)

So I was wondering if Fury Bolt is still recommended or not, according to his ACTUAL tree that does not have it anymore

"

69wanted69 wrote:

"

Freya98 wrote:

ok i farmed all guardians several times so far and when u know how to do them, they are just a joke for this build.

im killing all guardians deathless in a couple of seconds except for chimera (takes longer coz of the phases, but also deathless), even if they have triple dmg mods lol...

ive never done guardians and shaper before and i have big issues against the shaper. the dmg is enough, but im too stupid to dodge his attacks... i guess i wouldnt be able to do shaper with any build cause u have to dodge his attacks with every build eventually... i think ill just have to practice to improve...

havent tried uber atziri yet, but i guess ill have to practice more against atziri, cause sometimes i die against her 1-2 times, cause i dunno which ones the mirror or where to go and when to go where ^^

/edit: path of building told me that atziri's disfavour = more dmg than ngahamus flame. adding the average molten burst dmg from ngahamus flame atziri's dmg is only slightly higher, but with atziri's the lifeleech is much better and the initial hit hits much harder.
path of building told me that added fire dmg sup = more effective dmg than fire pen sup except against guardians and shaper (dunno for uber atziri)!
but if ur playing with cyclone for mapping ngahamus flame is way more effective!

the point of using ngmahu is so you can proc molten burst, idk what your problem is trying to use other axes, your "average damage" is literally saying every 5 hit it proc once, which doesnt even make sense as you're assuming your chance being a fixed number, also did you take in account of extra 6hit (9 hit with dying sun) ngamahu provide per second? life leech is higher?wtf you have 100% leech pretty much all the time why would you need higher leech if you can leech back all your life in on hit, did path of building also tell you that? probably not huh?
path of building is not everything, please just play the game and stop using that program to compare everything. if you're gonna use path of building to make theoretical gameplay then why do you even play the game.
by your logic a mirroed axe would be bis.
oh yea please tell me how you reach 100% phys to fire conversion without ngmahu axe on cyclone? nice 50% damage
(you have avatar of fire on amulet, you only do fire damage and read what aof does, you literally just cut your damage in half and path of building is telling you its better, see where im going with this?)

"

im not using cyclone, only molten strike. so if u wanna help me, refer only to the effects ngamahu provides to molten strike pls.

"extra 6hit (9 hit with dying sun) ngamahu provide per second" ---> whats that?

i used path of building to find the highest dmg output with molten strike.

path of building shows me the melee on hit dmg of molten strike, the magma balls dmg of molten strike and it shows me (only) the average dmg of molten burst of ngamahu.

according to path of building the dmg of molten strike on melee hit and its magma balls scale identically.

i tested all one handed + two handed uniques/rares in path of building and (except for some 620+ dps two handed rare which i cant afford anyway) atziris disfavour was the only weapon that had more dps than ngamahu.
more dps on melee hit as well as more dps on the magma balls of molten strike, both scaling the same way.
path of building is considering that ngamahu converts 50% fire dmg into phys dmg, cause i can edit the items and when i erased "50% of phys dmg converted into fire dmg" on ngamahu i had less dmg as a result!!! it didnt make a big difference though. i think path of building is reliable.

the only thing that i had to consider separately, was that ngamahu has a 20% chance to cast lvl 16 molten burst on hit which is linked to the same supporting skills as molten strike!
and this is the part where my math skills couldnt make it! i assume that the dmg is nearly the same if u add the molten burst projectiles to the single target dmg while hitting with molten strike, but i think that disfavours dmg and leech is more consistent.

im bad in maths so the only way to test is ingame. i already have disfavour and ill compare the dmg with my ngamahu. the problem is that im not sure if i can rly notice the difference. ill need like several minotaur maps for example and run them white (so they dont have different mods).

but maybe u or someone else understands what path of building is showing me and can add the molten burst dmg to the molten strike dmg of ngamahu and tell me which dps (disfavour or ngamahu) is better for molten strike (NOT cyclone, i know ngamahu is better for cyclone but im not using it...)

i dunno how to upload the screenshot, so ill write the important content of the path of building result. ill refer only to the dmg, not the leech results, but to be mentioned, the life leech difference is about the same as the dmg difference in %:

disfavour setup:
calculation mode: effective dps.
fully buffed dmg on molten strike melee hit:
average dmg: 61310.4
attack rate: 9.63
total dps: skill hit dmg: 606776.9

fully buffed dmg on molten strike magma balls:
average dmg: 54817.7
attack rate: 9.49
total dps: skill hit dmg: 520423.0

ngahamu setup:
calculation mode: effective dps.
fully buffed dmg on molten strike melee hit:
average dmg: 45057.1
attack rate: 9.60
total dps: skill hit dmg: 444083.0
(50% converted dmg erased variation: total dps: skill hit dmg: 428180.8 - so not a big difference)

fully buffed dmg on molten strike magma balls:
average dmg: 39797.5
attack rate: 9.46
total dps: skill hit dmg: 387229.4

fully buffed molten burst calculation:
calculation mode: effective dps.
average dmg: 62544.8
attack rate: 4.86
skill hit dmg: 62544.8 average dmg

i didnt mention crit chance and hit chance cause its the same for both, so it doesnt make a difference.

ok so my problem is to understand what the result of the molten burst calculation means aka how to add it to the calculation of molten strike.
i dont have a dps result for molten burst and i dunno if path of building considers that molten burst procs only with 20% chance on hit.
i assume total dps skill hit dmg is the dmg on hit, but i dunno if the dps for magma balls counts for 1 magma ball or for all 10 magma balls...
i dont get a dps result for molten burst, just an average dmg...
i dunno how many molten burst projectiles proc when the proc is successful...
this is fuckin difficult if there arent more details about the mechanics.

does someone actually fully understand the calculation and is able to add the molten burst dmg to the molten strike dmg of ngamahu and eventually tell me which one does more single target dmg?

i dont even know how many projectiles hit the target if i use conc effect. and i dont know if it depends on the size of the target...

well, i hope someone can help me solve that.

/edit: i think the magma balls dmg counts only for 1 projectile, coz the dmg doesnt go up if i add dying sun (+2 projectiles) to the setup!

if this assumption is correct i would calculate like that: i have 10 molten strike projectiles per hit and i think its 3 molten burst projectiles on every 5th hit with ngamahu.

lets assume the path of building calculation doesnt consider that its only 20% chance on hit - im pretty sure of that, coz the average dmg of molten burst is way too high!

lets assume only 5 of the molten strike projectiles hit the single target because of the aoe and all 3 molten burst projectiles hit the target.

disfavour: average dmg of magma balls: 5x54817.7 = 274088.5

ngamahu: average dmg of magma balls + average dmg of molten burst: 5x39797.5+(3x62544.8)/5 = 236514.38

if my calculation is correct, disfavour should deal more dmg than ngamahu with the molten strike skill (not cyclone!)... 37574.12 more average dmg. thats about 16% more average dmg i guess.

"

Freya98 wrote:

ur right with the hits per second. there are more projectiles hitting the target per second with ngahamu, but i noticed that i dont leech 100% of my life with 1 hit. when i was fighting shaper i couldnt always leech back my full life with 1 hit while i was standing inside his beam.
sometimes it worked, but sometimes the beam drained my life faster than i could leech and i had to dodge. i have no clue why.

that means that it would be better for me if my hits leech a higher amount of life back than they do with ngahamus against shaper. i mean i can dodge the beam, but it would be faster to stand inside his beam.
and according to my calculation (if its correct) disfavour leeches approximately 16% more than ngahamus although ngahamus projectiles hit more often per second. the leech with ngahamus would only be better if i really leeched 100% of my life back per hit. i know that molten burst doesnt proc every 5th hit, but taking the average hit chance is the only way how u can make a calculation. and the longer the fight lasts the more u can rely on the average dmg calculation.

btw i was fighting shaper only with ngahamus, havent tried with disfavour yet.
by the time i bought the axes the cheapest 6L ngahamus was 4 ex and the cheapest 6L disfavour was 7 ex. thats not 5x the price.

listen, i know that the point of this build is to use ngahamus to proc molten burst. but the point of this build is to play a hybrid berserker with molten strike for single target and cyclone for clearing.

as u can see im playing a different version of this build, coz im not using cyclone, but molten strike only. that makes molten burst way less important.

and im not trying to change this guys build, but im trying to get advice for optimizing my own build which focuses on molten strike only and therefore significantly differs from the authors build!

and im digging into calculations, coz i think if u manage to consider all factors, ur result is correct. the problem is to find all factors. btw, coz u mentioned anger, i checked hoa and anger in path of building and the program showed me that hoa really provides more dmg than anger, although anger has more tooltip dps! so u shouldnt call it digging into paper dps, cause thats just ragged. i really think this program is reliable!

this is a computer game and its mechanics are based on maths. if we were talking about martial arts or street fighting i wouldnt dig into written calculations... so im definitely not comparing apples to bananas...

jesus, do u think im a child? im 28...