Ascendency points and Oriath (aka remove Labyrinth mandatoriness)

I don't enjoy running the lab, but I don't think it is in any way too hard. Neither the traps, nor the boss are in any way unreasonably difficult to beat at the appropriate level and I always do them myself.

That being said, I don't enjoy running it. It feels like a chore to do and I can rarely be arsed to grind glove and boot enchants and I will always buy helmet enchants. Doing it once for the points though isn't too bad.

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Squatfurd wrote:

Lab is not too long, it's too crap.

Lab is not too hard, it's too crap.

I can appreciate the work that went into something I hate, it's beautiful, it's cool in theory.

It's also completely against the spirit of why most of us play aRPG's.

It's tedious crappy crap crap, and content shouldn't be gated behind a giant crap wall.

Want to make a new alternative a lot harder? I would love that. Just... No more of this crap.

It's really hard to take posts like this at face value since lab doesn't really play much differently from the rest of the game and you give no arguments or rationale at all.

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DurianMcgregor wrote:

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Squatfurd wrote:

Lab is not too long, it's too crap.

Lab is not too hard, it's too crap.

I can appreciate the work that went into something I hate, it's beautiful, it's cool in theory.

It's also completely against the spirit of why most of us play aRPG's.

It's tedious crappy crap crap, and content shouldn't be gated behind a giant crap wall.

Want to make a new alternative a lot harder? I would love that. Just... No more of this crap.

It's really hard to take posts like this at face value since lab doesn't really play much differently from the rest of the game and you give no arguments or rationale at all.

That's actually a brilliant post, in its own way, though I accept that you hate it. I suspect that you hate it because you disagree with it; not because you don't understand it.

I also respect that you think the lab doesn't play differently from the rest of the game, but you should be aware that most people disagree with you. Chris Wilson also disagrees with you, by the way: He calls the Labyrinth gameplay "orthogonal" to the rest of the game's gameplay.

But I don't think you need the lead dev to say something like this to confirm what is already obvious: If it were true that the lab didn't "really play much differently from the rest of the game," then you would not see so many threads and posts by people who hate it. They would simply leave.

It is only because the rest of the game is as compelling as it is that people tolerate the Labyrinth. And it is only because those people exist that you see threads such as this.

My (obviously) subjective analysis is that it is either a testament to how amazing the game truly is, or a testament to how horrible the labyrinth truly is, or (most likely) a combination of the two.

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SevenOfNine86 wrote:

The Lab it's a Pain in the ASS!!!

You can get accustomed to be whiped in the Ass..

But it doesnt make it more pleasent experience

(at least in me humble opinion)

Especially uber Trials and Uber Lab... oooo Goshhh

Please GGG change something about it...

I never done Uber lab. And im not going to. As scion fan i dot see point.

I love the lab. It's the only content in any ARPG I've ever encountered where slow is fast. Being good at the lab means I know when to stop and think, and how to think clearly under pressure. Getting to the end and opening up those caches is extremely satisfying, because I know most people just don't bother.

I'm glad they aren't crippling this content; it's so good.

I'd be fine with making the ascendancy points easier to obtain but leave the caches and enchants where they are, and keep them just as much of a challenge as they are today.

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Xeledon2132 wrote:

Hi,

you might want to try what I did this league - play PoE if you want to, just don't do the Lab.
While you do give up some power and theorycrafting fun, the game is still a blast to play without APs.

In fact that's one point I have to cede to the Lab defenders. It really is optional for me.

I still hope they'll some day provide another way to get APs - but until then just playing without them will do for me. I also hope that people making it to maps while refusing to ascend shows up in some statistic GGG looks at and get them sinking.

So come join my non-agressive resistance! ;)

This is so damn depressing to read. I positively hate the Lab. But regardless of what you think or say. Unless you're breaking the game via some little known about mechanic or a widely known about one (Double dipping) You aren't killing Shaper or the Guardians. It's not optional.

The only way you can even consider the lab optional is if you are saying you only want to play the game. Literally just logging in and doing bullshit white/yellow maps. You can probably do a few red maps. But ascendancy's are insanely powerful. They aren't optional regardless of what one person who doesn't do end game thinks.

The Lab is the single worst gate I've ever encountered in a game. I think the Lab in theory is really fun, and I did enjoy it quite a bit when I first started doing it. But after the 60th time it loses it's luster. Then you do it for the 300th time and you start to question why you even play the fucking game at all.

While some people call it optional, and by definition it is indeed optional. If you want to do any type of real content that requires strong builds and gear, you HAVE to do the Lab. And not a single person who isn't a masochist actually LIKES the lab. You may tolerate it, you may post behind me saying I'm wrong and say you like it, but you will be a lying sack of shit.

You don't "like" the Lab, no one does. You may like that not everyone can manage to do it and you can; you may like that it's a different kind of challenge; you may like that it kills level 100 Hardcore characters who lag for half a second. But you will never like doing the Lab for EVERY, SINGLE, FUCKING, CHARACTER, YOU WILL, EVER, MAKE, FOR THE REST OF THE TIME YOU PLAY POE!!

+1 Lab sucks. Take out the points and leave the enchants and the loot and people will still want to run it. Have the trials spawn in maps like they do and they can be your key to random loot and the enchant system.

They will never,ever, EVER scrap this system. Though i dont see why it cant be an atziri where you can completely ignore it if you so choose.

"

gibbousmoon wrote:

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DurianMcgregor wrote:

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Squatfurd wrote:

Lab is not too long, it's too crap.

Lab is not too hard, it's too crap.

I can appreciate the work that went into something I hate, it's beautiful, it's cool in theory.

It's also completely against the spirit of why most of us play aRPG's.

It's tedious crappy crap crap, and content shouldn't be gated behind a giant crap wall.

Want to make a new alternative a lot harder? I would love that. Just... No more of this crap.

It's really hard to take posts like this at face value since lab doesn't really play much differently from the rest of the game and you give no arguments or rationale at all.

That's actually a brilliant post, in its own way, though I accept that you hate it. I suspect that you hate it because you disagree with it; not because you don't understand it.

I also respect that you think the lab doesn't play differently from the rest of the game, but you should be aware that most people disagree with you. Chris Wilson also disagrees with you, by the way: He calls the Labyrinth gameplay "orthogonal" to the rest of the game's gameplay.

But I don't think you need the lead dev to say something like this to confirm what is already obvious: If it were true that the lab didn't "really play much differently from the rest of the game," then you would not see so many threads and posts by people who hate it. They would simply leave.

It is only because the rest of the game is as compelling as it is that people tolerate the Labyrinth. And it is only because those people exist that you see threads such as this.

My (obviously) subjective analysis is that it is either a testament to how amazing the game truly is, or a testament to how horrible the labyrinth truly is, or (most likely) a combination of the two.

This says a lot of nothing, honestly.

What is the difference between Lab and the core game? The entire game is built around a risk vs. reward model where the reward is interwoven with RNG at every turn. To me, Lab is the epitome of this.

"

Squatfurd wrote:

Lab is not too long, it's too crap.

Lab is not too hard, it's too crap.

I can appreciate the work that went into something I hate, it's beautiful, it's cool in theory.

It's also completely against the spirit of why most of us play aRPG's.

It's tedious crappy crap crap, and content shouldn't be gated behind a giant crap wall.

Want to make a new alternative a lot harder? I would love that. Just... No more of this crap.

Thats another huge problem with this system, im fine with one death and your done....but can i fucking leave to do a trade or two? Seriously how do people farm this(without being a streamer with a bitchboy for trading)What advantage do you get out of leaving for town? If you have a multiple ex sale you have been waiting a week to get you are going to burn that offering to get it. Why cant i atleast port back to town....

I never understand this logic. "I don't like this part of the game so why is it mandatory to progress?" I hate Pyramid. It is a shittily designed map, excessively long, ugly, annoying. If I could skip it in every playthrough I would in a heartbeat. I can't. I need to progress through the map to get to the end of Act2 and continue with the game(not counting needing to do it twice more through cruel and mercy).

So please, someone explain with a rational argument, why the specific part of the game that YOU subjectively dislike should stop being "mandatory" while every other specific part of the game that OTHERS subjectively dislike should remain intact and 100% required to progress through the game? I would LOVE to hear a response that isn't just "lab is worse," "lab is different" or "lab didnt used to exist;" because those are all non-arguments.

This is not a false equivalency. If anything this is being overly favorable to your argument, as lab can be initially ignored and backtracked to to be completed whenever(easily) without hard gating your progress. It's also far less "mandatory" than, say, Pyramid to play the game.