[3.17] For Slayer / Champion - Ngamahu Cyclone / Consecrated Path / Tectonic Slam

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skarlight wrote:
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Hi,
first of all thanks for the guide, you are amazing! I linked my build here, i'm looking for suggestions to improve, I still struggle with T16's, only could kill the Hydra so far, struggling with everything else. Of course I'm running 1 phys roll Anger Watcher's eye with this, and don't plan to use Xoph's build.
How important is having Fortify in the 6link? Could something like linking Fortify to Leap and add Damage on Full life as 6th link work smoothly?
Pastebin: https://pastebin.com/GS7JWbUT

Your gears look good. Gloves can have attack speed but stats on it are good. You can consider using Tombfist since with a socketed murderous jewel, you gain Intimidate on hit, which is a huge damage buff.

Fortify makes the game play smoother but if you are fine with linking fortify gem to leap slam, you can definitely do it.

Looking at your pastebin, you definitely have the damage to kill Shaper.

For fighting Phoenix guardian, a ruby flask with anti-burn will be good because he does fire degen as the fight drags. Look out when he curls up. His explosion can 1 shot.

For Chimera, you can check the FAQ section for tips on how to fight him.

For Minotaur, he hits the hardest so watch out for his falling rocks and tunnel attack. Don't touch the arcing bar. They will slow you down to a crawl.

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Drexl27 wrote:
Just started a Duelist this weekend to try out this build, and spent the rest of the currency I still had. But I'm considering selling some stuff off my Templar because I enjoy this a lot more. If I do that, does anyone have any recommendations regarding what items require upgrades the most? My goal is to finish my Atlas. Thanks.

Your flask setup is wrong so do check out the flask section.

Kaom's Heart is not a good chest for the build as you are losing too much damage over there. A 6L rare chest will beat Kaom's Heart damage easily and doesn't lose out of survivability.

Since you are playing in Abyss league, Stygian belt will be better. So look into replacing that.

Check out recommended rares, abyssal jewels and regular jewels section for preferred rolls.

And don't forget about FAQ section while you are at it.

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Aeres wrote:
What's better? Tombfist without elemental weakness + watchers eye with only extra fire damage or standard gloves?

Tombfist without elemental weakness + Watcher's Eye is better.

Tombfist provides free intimidate with murderous jewel.

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kreedzfreak wrote:
Spoiler


My gear is coming along quite nicely, some things can be upgraded easily but I'm fine with it so far.
PoB says sth around 342k Cyclone DPS + 26.8k Molten Burst on Shaper if I did the math right.
Thanks for the build!

Gears looking great there.

You can look into Tombfist gloves as that gives free intimidate on hit. Which will further boost your damage. Downside, you need a very good murderous jewel to make up for the resistance loose from your rare gloves.

And you are welcome. :)

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Sabre_Turbo wrote:
Gear
Spoiler

Reached 1m

Another upgrade for you, get this enchant on your boots:
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Damage Penetrates 10% of Enemy Elemental Resistances if you haven't Killed Recently
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ljoborges wrote:
Didn't got the lab enchant on helmet yet;


Spoiler

Any changes?

Glyph Spiral will need life roll. There aer 2 wasted stat on it.

Since you are playing in Abyss league, a Stygian belt with same stats as your Rustic belt will be better.

The best boots enchantment will be "Penetrates 10% elemental resistance if you have not killed recently".

3R2B1G on Bronn provide the most damage but very costly to roll. Something you can consider in the future.

Check out the flasks section. It has been updated. :)[/quote]
My jewels.


The ring I got yesterday and will try to change that, but the res is a pain to cap.
Stygian with similar mods, maybe if I take armour out.
Boots I'll try after helmet.
Colours is the future. :D
Now that flask change... can't find 50% fire res to make it.

Ty.
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kira1414 wrote:


Seriously though. You could have just said "Flask section is outdated. Dying Sun is no longer useful in 3.1"


seriously tho I did. Many times. It was you that snapped at me telling me to stop saying DS is useless. I believe you accused me of misleading new players. Now you up and remove it. If you listened to me in the first place, you could have saved yourself some grief. Then again if you simplified your original post to begin with, likely none of this would have happened.

Don’t put your short comings on me. I tried to help players save some ex, nothing more. You’re the so-called creator of this build right. So why is the onus on me to help you? (Which I did anyway but you took offense and defended that stupid flask).

And for what it’s worth, I don’t think the flask was ever good for this build. Because what I’ve never mentioned was that it may bring some dps to the table, but you’re losing some by not running another flask in its place. What does WJ, ToH, LR or WO bring? Because you gotta drop one of them for DS.

But congrats on finally seeing the light, it only took like 2 weeks of me low key ragging on DS. Or was that high key lol. I told you before, I vet every claim I’ve made with actual math and stuff >_>
Deliver pain exquisite
How are you getting up to the 110ish intelligence needed for many of the gems in this build? I see only 54 total in the build itself, so that leaves 50+ int on gear so two pieces of gear with int on them?
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Berto33 wrote:
How are you getting up to the 110ish intelligence needed for many of the gems in this build? I see only 54 total in the build itself, so that leaves 50+ int on gear so two pieces of gear with int on them?


1 ring + maybe a jewel with int should be enough
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ljoborges wrote:

My jewels.


The ring I got yesterday and will try to change that, but the res is a pain to cap.
Stygian with similar mods, maybe if I take armour out.
Boots I'll try after helmet.
Colours is the future. :D
Now that flask change... can't find 50% fire res to make it.

Ty.

Your jewels are missing life rolls so that will be something you want to look into. Prioritize life over damage roll on jewels since the build has enough damage to clear all content.

The numbers shown in flask section is just an illustration of what at least 50% meant.

You can also aim for fire: 125, cold: 75, lightning: 75. But that will mean you need to be more wary while running elemental weakness maps.

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seriously tho I did. Many times. It was you that snapped at me telling me to stop saying DS is useless. I believe you accused me of misleading new players. Now you up and remove it. If you listened to me in the first place, you could have saved yourself some grief. Then again if you simplified your original post to begin with, likely none of this would have happened.

Don’t put your short comings on me. I tried to help players save some ex, nothing more. You’re the so-called creator of this build right. So why is the onus on me to help you? (Which I did anyway but you took offense and defended that stupid flask).

And for what it’s worth, I don’t think the flask was ever good for this build. Because what I’ve never mentioned was that it may bring some dps to the table, but you’re losing some by not running another flask in its place. What does WJ, ToH, LR or WO bring? Because you gotta drop one of them for DS.

But congrats on finally seeing the light, it only took like 2 weeks of me low key ragging on DS. Or was that high key lol. I told you before, I vet every claim I’ve made with actual math and stuff >_>

It is not difficult for me to accept input from other players. Just look at the various people that I have credited (a lot of build creators don't even credit people who have contributed to their guide) in my guide.

It is difficult when the input comes from a player with aggressive, elitist, arrogant and provocative attitude (like yourself). Especially when they are not going straight to the point, but outright bashing the creator (me in this case).

It is not your responsibility to help me (or anyone else posting) in this thread. And I can assure you, if your "helpful" intent includes bashing, mocking and ridiculing, I bet the person receiving your input will rather not want it at all.

I have never refuted about the math involved with how much damage Dying Sun brings to the table.



The part that you were misleading players was not Dying Sun, but rather Molten Burst not accounting for much damage to the build (15% or less is what you were pushing) and I have indicated various times in various posts that the actual figure range between 30 to 40% for top end gears.

You were even suggesting to drop Iron Grip from the skill tree and that Point Blank don't even generate enough damage for the build, which is very misleading to other players (and that is one of the things regarding Molten Burst that I am pointing out):

Spoiler
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bipsylalapo wrote:


On this point, what's the ideal uncapped resistance then? Considering I'm going for Taste of Hate + Lion's Roar + Dying Sun, so no Wise Oak to spam for me.

And considering at endgame, most of the DPS comes from Cyclone and not Molten Burst, why is the additional projectile bonus from DS worth 7 ex for us?


Your ideal resistance cap should be 109 (110 for Fire on account of Barbarism). This gives you protection from EW in red maps (>79). You can go higher but you’re protecting yourself from rare and localized events, none of which matter in fights like Elder, Shaper. Both Shaper and Elder both employ cold and neither curse you so overcapping is futile. Running Purity of Ice to get your max up goes an incredibly long way. Stacking resistance above the 75 cap has tremendous returns. That’s of course if you care about EW on a tanky melee build. It’s completely fine to just run 76/75/75.

DS is likely the biggest waste of money in the author’s guide, not even sure why they listed it. 7ex to amplify a skill that brings almost nothing to the table. You’re priorities should be:

Xoph’s
Perfect Ngamahu (everything scales from your weapon, so the better it is, the more exponential gains you’ll see)
6L properly colored Bronn’s
Hysteria rolled Opals
Watcher’s Eye
Helmet enchant
Lion’s Roar

Then all the rest to flesh out the build. But the above will give you Shaper dps and you’ll melt maps. DS isn’t even on the radar. You could get 2 nicely rolled opals that will bring upwards of 20% more consistent damage to everything (Cyclone and MB) for the cost of DS, a flask that’s up periodically.

Also only about half of all MB projectiles actually hit. And given that they have a max range of 20 units, an average estimate of damage scaling through Point Blank only puts them at 1.3x. So even with that node, they don’t generate that much for the build. Go ahead and drop Iron Grip, it’s a waste of a point.

Imagine if I have replied you in this manner
Spoiler
Do you even have the facts right? Point Blank provide 43% more average damage to molten balls. Did you even check DPS calculator? They don't generate enough damage for the build? Are you suggesting to players to remove Point Blanks? Are you kidding me? That is the most laughable advice I have seen.

And what is with this removal of Iron Grip? You are throwing 10% damage away for just 1 skill point? How smart can you get? There is no single skill point that can make up for that damage lost from Point Blank and Iron Grip.
How will you feel about that?



And I remember at one point you were also pointing out that Wise Oak flask is shitty (stating the flask uptime is too low to make it worth) for the build too.

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Jevnigeff wrote:


i dont understand :(

436483.2dps with chance to ignite and 429660 with fire pen..

only checked intimidated and flasks what we get vs shaper in dps phase.

So how you get those numbers, im only looking pob dps number and it says chance to ignite wins?


Shaper/Elder/Uber Atziri (and her crew) are all that matter dps wise. No other boss stands long even with a 4L.

Check intimidate and covered in ash. Both those debuffs have nearly 100% up time. The rest are all small windows, especially flasks. Wise Oak amplify’s Chance to Ignite to be marginally higher than Fire Pen. We are talking 1%. The flask doesn’t last long, so for a small window, you are doing marginally more. For the rest of the time, which makes up the vast majority of the fight, you are doing less. Also Wise Oak is a shitty flask. Writhing Jar to proc Headsman (and leech) for that 40% more multi is a way better flask.

Trust, you want to run with Fire Pen. It’s BIS.

Imagine if I replied in this way
Spoiler
Are you serious? Wise Oak is a shitty flask? For 6 seconds, you get 15% elemental penetration and you call that shitty?

Did you bury your head in the sand?
Do you like it at all?



Dying Sun used to be worth every penny prior to 3.1 because back then, single elemental reflect mob can 1 shot unexpected players when they map.

With 3.1 changes, Dying Sun loses its attractiveness (something that I have overlooked when I update the guide before 3.1 is released).

I have never disagree that Dying Sun is not worth the exalted (even though I didn't state it clearly) in patch 3.1 but stated that it is an option for players to push for min/max.




To put it simply, straight pointing out (like many other players do) where is outdated (i.e. flask section) would have been much easier to comprehend and understand where you are coming from (instead of constant bashing).

It took me a long while to realize that you are coming from the angle that the flask section needs an update (especially when you keep focusing on Dying Sun and Molten Burst doing little to the build damage and that is where I step in to correct this misinformation).




I still remember the time you were raging at me on Watcher's Eye extra fire damage when you have misunderstood my reply to another player. And back then, it also took me a long while to realize that we were talking about 2 different things and I have to point it out to you to make you realize too.

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kira1414 wrote:

And you know what just occurred to me?

The stats you posted and the one I posted in the screenshot are exactly the same and that gave me the hint that we are talking about two different things here.

You are talking about fire penetration and extra damage to the build as a whole.

I am talking about Watcher's Eye.


LOL, ya. I also fixed the typo, good catch. But yes, dropping Fortify for Fire Pen on your Bronn's gives you way more dps. You can link Fortify on Leap Slam that's more than enough to get the buff up. It obviously comes down to skill at that point, but it's definitely worth the trade off for the insane boost to damage.

But yeah, the added fire variant of WE is better than the fire pen version, hands down.


Keep it simple if you want people to understand you better. And be civil about it and don't be so provoking in the way you word.

Bashing, mocking and ridiculing players doesn't sink well with them if you want your words to be taken.

I believe you won't like to be treated the same way too.

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Berto33 wrote:
How are you getting up to the 110ish intelligence needed for many of the gems in this build? I see only 54 total in the build itself, so that leaves 50+ int on gear so two pieces of gear with int on them?

As pointed out by @Aeres, 2 pieces of gear with int rolls will help to make up for the missing int.

Rings and jewels can fill that gap. A well rolled ring can get you 40+ int. You can also spec into a +30 node (Ancestral Knowledge).
Hey I have really enjoyed this build and did all the end game contents! Thank you so much!

Just a question what do you think about this item option?
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DUPST3R wrote:
Hey I have really enjoyed this build and did all the end game contents! Thank you so much!

Just a question what do you think about this item option?

That is a nice chest but unfortunately it does not roll 3R2B1G.

Even if it does have the right color, the damage output will still be 10% (at least) lesser than Bronn.

:(
Last edited by kira1414 on Jan 24, 2018, 10:18:26 AM
Sorry if this has been asked before but damn there is alot of pages to this thread. Is Elemental Equilibrium worth it if you have some added flat damage of other elements than fire from jewels etc etc?
im currently running this build, but i have alot of problems with mana sustain, should i take damage leeched as mana or what other alternatives are there?

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