What is the MINIMUM PvP needs? (ignore balance)
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Added some of your feedback in a shortered form with a full quote in spoilers. Let me know if you feel I misunderstood or phrased anything incorrectly.
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My comments on balance are really the most important thing pvp needs. It's a permanent solution to do away with all the skill-specific t values and more/less scaling and just do global pvp damage reductions on broad damage categories (greatest reduction for secondary damage and dots).
GGG isn't putting resources toward pvp balance with each new skill so they need to implement a maintenance free system. Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client. Last edited by Vhlad#6794 on Jan 6, 2017, 3:49:03 AM
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The first 4 most important things to do I would say are creating rewards and progression (of any sort), fixing the few small remaining balance issues, fix premades and lastly perhaps the most important aspect, fix the ladder/queue. Ignoring balance is kinda silly as it is so easy to fix and it actually is a major problem. All of these issues are somewhat similar in importance and all of them sort of need to be taken care of before the pvp in poe can actually slowly become something. After fixing these we can look at the quality of life things.
I'm aware you want the absolute minimum GGG has to do to make pvp work. Well, here is a plan that will make it work. How to fix the ladder/queue: If I had to underline the most important issue, this would probably be it. You need to match supply and demand so that it doesn't become a ghost town. As an example, make one only queue for hld and one for lld (all leagues, tempsc,temphc,tempsc,sc). Then the client chooses the most fitting server for both players. This would immediately increase the amount of pvp matches played tenfold. How to fix rewards and progression: There are so many ways to do this. Alt-art rewards are an example that have been done before and I would say it worked. There is no need for fancy tournaments and such (although they were very nice). But most importantly you need to reward the masses and grant them a sense of progression. Currency seems to be the only worthwhile reward in this game so use that as a reward. Progression for an example comes through simple statistics like win/loss ratio, ladder rating etc. How to fix balance: Form a group of objective people who know how this game works pvp-wise and then let them work the problems out outside of these forums together with GGG. This is an issue that is far more simple than it is made out to be. How to fix premades: Once again form a group of objective people who know LLD inside out and work together with GGG. Comments for the ideas of PT: Apart from a few things I only saw minor quality of life improvements that wouldn't actually change anything. It is true Leo could be improved and it would have some positive effect on pvp. But in the end he is only a master. He could act as a progression "bar" like you suggested though. Being able to queue anywhere and during instance changes is a thing that would be very welcome and would be the next step after fixing the queue itself. It is true that HLD and LLD are different but all of the core problems are the same for both. |
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" I do not disagree with the comments you made about balance, but read the title of the thread |
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" Temp players play temp for a reason; having PvP with legacy and non legacy gear would make me quit. |
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" This right here is an illusion made up by I don't even know who or what. As an example all the best current builds don't need any mirrored or legacy gear. In the current version of poe, legacy stuff and mirrored crap don't mean the world anymore. People would much rather just get actual games no matter what they are up against. It is a balance issue more than anything. Addressing the known balance issues would make this thing be an even less of a problem. |
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" You are ignoring the entirety of dealing with economy in a new league and how that progresses over time; there is a point to legacy gear, and availability of gear for the purpose of corruptions etc. It is a MASSIVE difference and to say otherwise is dishonest |
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" Im not ignoring it. I'm merely saying it isn't as big of a factor as it is made out to be. And it is close to irrelevant next to the problem of player acquisition. We need more players and by combining all the ladders we will get more players. The queue times will be shorter --> people are more likely to queue --> more and more players start to queue --> repeat This loop will feed itself as the queue system starts to work. Another option to "reduce the supply" is to create a set time frame where people are more likely to queue. As an example, the ladder ratings would change only between 7 to 9 pm (3 days a week) EU/US. This is the reason why your events have been successful as you have reduced the supply in a sense by creating a meaningful time frame where pvping matters. Last edited by lapiz#7973 on Jan 6, 2017, 6:30:34 AM
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" I think that this would be the number 1 thing that could bring more ppl to pvp. But even if u have more ppl, u will end up at the same result has we are atm. Sure fixing ladder/queue would be nice n would be much needed. But the more ppl u bring to pvp the faster ur going to end up where we are now, a MAJOR issue with balance to the point where a majority of ppl will just quit it due to how imbalance it is. Improving stuff left n right would only delay this issue. Also something that i would like to see is a rework of some tile set/new one for 1v1/3v3 that doesn't always favor spamming AOE skill on walls, make them bigger n more open. A small balance that would greatly help the EA problem is the fact that u can use elevation just like walls wich doesn't make any sense at all to be able to stack EA on the ground. I know its only a minor issue but it would be a great start. Everything else is just balance related, EA/zerphi's/aoe overlap/t-value/secondary dmg.... EDIT: Thx for taking some of ur time to show/help pvp, im glad that its u n not another streamer cuz i know ur not afraid of saying what u think is wrong with the game even in from of DEVS. A day w/o dealing with stupid ppl is like....Never mind. Ill tell u if it ever happens Last edited by philophil#2404 on Jan 6, 2017, 10:46:08 AM
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Hi PT,
Before saying anything I would like to thank you for taking the time to showcase the pvp scene. Having a well known streamer doing that and exposing this part of the game to the community is invaluable for us. That said, I must say that nothing is more important than balance at this stage. The pvp system is there, sur it can be improved but without further balance change, it's plagued to fail over and over and over. Sadly as long as there is an unfair mechanism to exploit, some player will do it resulting in a situation were you either use that exploit to fight with equal chances or either give up on pvp entirely. Most of the problems have been identified since years and I don't understand that GGG is not taking a firm stance against those. For example Explosive Arrow is the bane of every serious pvp players since years. I understand that balancing this skill would mean reworking it from scratch so instead of some small nerfs, what we need is someone with a firm stance on the pvp meta, able to make decision like a -100% damage reduction against players. If you can't fix the problem, at least remove it from the global equation. Pvp system improvements will be worthless if the fondation are that rotten. Last edited by IceDeal#5895 on Jan 6, 2017, 9:18:55 AM
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