[3.0] Frosty's Assassin Spectral Throw [Video]

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VerseCB wrote:

So, I'd ultimately want a highpdps dag with chaos in it? What about using diamoind rings with chaos essence?

Crafting %chaos on diamond rings is a good option. A better option is probably on steel rings.

You can try 2 Bino's until you get daggers >300 pDPS. Attack speed is important as well, helps the build feel good and leech in addition to high crit chance. Pay attention to your main and off hand crit chance. With power charges up you want both as close to 95% as possible.

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A_Riot_Coming wrote:

A few more quick notes:

I would be surprised if bleed is ever a very significant portion of our DPS. ST is all about hitting many times quickly, as we attack quickly and each single attack is hitting multiple times. But we can only ever have a single bleed doing damage on our target, which means only one hit will be in effect at a time, whereas we can stack poison an unlimited number of times. Bleed also ignores our chaos damage while poison scales off both phys and chaos.

Arakaali's seems like a pretty sweet offhand option, especially if you don't want to spend multiple ex. I tried it from level 53 to about 68 and the extra poison chance + good DPS + spiders which do decent damage and tank make it close to as good as Bino's when only using one weapon. When dual wielding you could get some of the best parts from both.

Bleed is absolutely an important component of the build. That is one of the reasons Assassins are so strong this league. If I was interested in making a build around "hitting many times quickly" I would have gone a Raider/Pathfinder route.

The bleed is a big reason these types of builds are great boss killers. The important part is double dipping and making sure you have a very strong bleed to apply.

Arakaali's may be a nice dagger to level with, but there are a number of reasons this isn't the best option in late game. You can continue testing it, but it will likely be a weaker option than a simple Bino's.

Another option is to use 2 Bino's, 1 with culling strike.

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edwinschi wrote:

I want to share my character, lvl 91, Here is my gear:

The dps:

With golem + blood rage


With golem + blood rage + 3 frenzy charge + 4 power charge + atziri promise + sulfur flask + Witchfire brew


All buffs swapping GPM with Slower Projectiles


With this dps i kill all the breachlords very fast, faster than my 300k dps flame totem inquisitor.

I have changed my tree a little, removed all the dual wielding nodes, i think they dont double dip on the poison, and they dont increased the portion of chaos damage.

So with the aditional points i focused on projectile damage and physical damage ( not weapon physical damage). After those changes o got more dps than with the dual wielding nodes.

Here is the tree: http://www.pathofexile.com/fullscreen-passive-skill-tree/AAAABAYBAQHRAx4EsQUtBbUHHg2NES8V7Ra_G60fQSPTI_Yk_SaVLOEuUzB8Nj031EMxRwZHfklRSn1M_02STipRR1S9VUtW9VuvXEBh4mKsZU1qjGwIbIxwUnTtdZ51y3X9eu97FH11feOEb4d2h8uJ04w2jX2Nfo2_joqPYI_6lS6Wi5fQnaqhIqJAotmjiqebrGav67DYsbO0xbTRtUi5PrvjvTa-p8LsxKLIDMgUzZjPFdDQ02_TftQj1ELVudZY2Hbawdtu2-fjn-dU6mLrY-0_7g7vevDV8Yr0-PVv_MX-uv_eB5kQkjIyTI5Z8ISivG_Zhg==


Cheers!

This is looking very good. Sounds like it's working out well too.

Not a ton of room for improving, really just minor tweaks now.

2 suggestions are:
- Get a Bino's with culling strike, I tested this and it was great for bosses
- 40% Spec throw damage on a Rat's Nest or Starkonja's is a nice boost (I prefered Starkonja's for the added life, this build doesn't really lake damage)

nice job

Haven't spec'd yet again but update on gear Would I try to roll for chaos or craft bleed? Another question is do I want two rare daggers or 1 bino one rare?



I wanted to try CI just made this.

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VerseCB wrote:

Haven't spec'd yet again but update on gear

Would I try to roll for chaos or craft bleed? Another question is do I want two rare daggers or 1 bino one rare?



I wanted to try CI just made this.

For the dagger setup you have a few options. On the one you're crafting, I would probably side with crafting bleed. How would you roll chaos on it? Another option here is crafting leech on it if possible. If going CI, you may be able to get the rest of your leech from jewels or jewelry. That would prevent you from needing crown of eyes or traveling all the way towards vitality void. When I preliminarily tested a CI version of this, leech was my biggest issue.

If you have the currency to test a few things out, I would try the dagger you're crafting with a binos that has culling strike. That's a nice addition for bosses. Otherwise, your best late game option is likely 2 daggers similar to your Dire Sever.

nice ES chest, should help with fine-tuning the CI build.

Re: Bleed damage, I recently downloaded Path of Building and decided to check out bleed vs poison vs attack damage using edwinschi's level 91 character (since mine is still a work in progress and OP appears to have respecced). There's a good chance I'm missing something since I am new to this program, but here is what I got:



Assuming the target is bleeding we have a 57% chance to apply poison without power charges. We attack 4.76 times per second, so if we assume each attack hits twice and we haven't killed a maimed enemy recently, at 2.1 second duration we are averaging 11.4 poison stacks. At 7.5k DPS per poison stack, poison is doing about 86k DPS.

The bleed lists for 1.6k DPS. If the target is moving we would multiply this by 6, getting 9.6k DPS.

The main attack lists for 30k DPS, so assuming each attack hits twice our attack is around 60k DPS.

These calculations leave a lot to be desired. Poison gains nearly 30% more DPS if we have killed a maimed unit recently and gain the 30% duration. Poison also has 70% chance to apply on crits, and crits do most of our damage, so the 57% is underselling the effective poison rate. I'm also not sure if it accounts for only the highest hit counting for bleed; if that's not the case then that dps should be multiplied by around 1.3 (less with 4 power charges). Also both of these numbers are ignoring the 100% more damage from Toxic Delivery.

I did re-run these numbers using 4 power charges, 3 frenzy, and asumming a poisened/bleeding/maimed enemy and a recent maimed kill. Both bleed and poison gain a bit more than 3X DPS, while the main attack gains a bit less than 2X DPS.

TL;DR: This calculation is only a very rough guide, and I may have missed something significant, but it looks like bleed is less than 10% of our DPS on a moving target and less than 2% of our DPS on a stationary target (assuming at least 2-3 seconds of continuous attacking; bleed will be better when spending more time dodging).

Can't remember if this has been discussed yet, but with so much of our boss damage coming from poison, I would strongly consider running Temp Chains over Enfeeble for the duration multiplier (not sure about harcore though).

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A_Riot_Coming wrote:

TL;DR: This calculation is only a very rough guide, and I may have missed something significant, but it looks like bleed is around 10% of our DPS on a moving target and around 2% of our DPS on a stationary target (assuming at least 2-3 seconds of continuous attacking; bleed will be better when spending more time dodging).

I appreciate you looking into this, I think it provides a bit more perspective about the contribution of each of the damage types. I know that the bleed is not a huge contributor to the total dps being dealt. But it is a huge contributor. I don't deal much with calculation sheets like these, though they are pretty interesting. They appear to be a bit more on the theory crafting side of things, which can be helpful. One thing that gets overlooked is how a build "feels". And the play of this build suffers quite a bit without the bleed component.


The bleed component of this build (and most other successful assassin builds) is very important. I think there are a number of contributing factors to this, including the additive effective of stacking more than one DoT on targets with big health pools, utilizing other sources of scaling damage (e.g. Witchfire Brew). There may be other considerations here, such as resistance/immunity to damage mods such as poison, which I know some bosses do possess. So globally, I think the bleed is a big contributor to the relative efficacy of this build.

Edit: Additionally, I'm not sure about the source of your numbers. If I remember correctly, my aps was closer to 2, which would impact the ability to stack poison. I also don't remember chaos and phys damage being this equal. If I remember correctly, phys was the primary source damage, with chaos being ~60-70% of that.

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WayTooFrosty wrote:

Edit: Additionally, I'm not sure about the source of your numbers. If I remember correctly, my aps was closer to 2, which would impact the ability to stack poison.

On my lvl 79 ES version I have 3.5 APS with Bino's and a shield in town. Edwinschi's version has a 1.89 aps offhand, dual wield bonus, better faster attacks gem, less defensive focus in tree, more passive points to play with, and vaal haste appears to be on by default. So the number in the above post seems right on target, maybe a little inflated if you don't want to include vaal haste.

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WayTooFrosty wrote:

I also don't remember chaos and phys damage being this equal. If I remember correctly, phys was the primary source damage, with chaos being ~60-70% of that.

You can see from the screenshots he posted that the portion of chaos damage is accurate. If anything those numbers are conservative as it appears the portion of damage that is chaos jumps quite a bit as more buffs are added in his later screenshots. The difference with your recollection might be because he specced out of some of the dual wield phys nodes as he mentioned in his post.

If I went about coloring a 6L regalia it would be near impossible to color in 10ex so what other options can I do? 4g2b? 4g1r1b? What's the best?

ALSO, if I do go ES how much DPS would I missout on not taking uniques. Would also consider going lowlife.