[2.5] Mustard's Raider/Blade Flurry DreamFeather Build

"

kilixpree wrote:

Your gear has a lot of accuracy - how much do you suggest? I have a gloves with 300+ and that's it, maybe is the reason for my lack of dmg :(

edit: what a foil needs to have to beat a dreamfeather? Of course chaos damage and attack speed, but flat phys is also important?

yes i have a lot of accuracy on gear. i suggest between 600-800 flat accuracy on other gear if you're using dreamfeather. if you're not then you'll need 900+ and probably need to spec some in the passive tree as well.

that is one thing i like about dreamfeather as well, it saves me at least 3 passives from spec'ing into accuracy. as dual scourge you'll need to, and as foil you'll need to as well.


a foil will need to have physical dmg as well to beat dreamfeather, yes. 2+ atkspd, phys and chaos. except on standard anyway those are running for 5ex+. dreamfeather is cheap as shit.


also of course scourge will kill the guardians that can't be poisoned faster than dreamfeather version, its because dreamfeather scales flat chaos and poison. there is no physical scaling or elemental scaling. scourge has physical damage and scaling (with the claw nodes you took and melee phys support gem).
another thing are flasks. you're gaining physical scaling from sin's rebirth and atziri's flask. i don't use either. i don't need to use sin's rebirth because #1 i don't have it and #2 its only physical scaling which dreamfeather doesn't have much of. same thing for atziri's promise so i don't use it.

i could very easily recolour and socket different things with my dreamfeather and probably kill those guardians faster than your dual scourge.

"

kilixpree wrote:

btw I was feeling very pressured against spike dmg, so I changed my auras to temp chains (in blasphemy) and using poachers mark casting (I think that I'll sell my vinktar), do you guys already tried it? The mobs now are harmless with tempchains+wither, what is something that I was missing playing with this build.

oh right forgot about this part...

ya i changed to also use temp chains. it increases my poison duration to 5.3 seconds and its feeling very nice. my clear speed is fast enough that i don't need the extra flask charges from poacher's mark anyway.

also i would not get rid of vinktar's, it is a MASSIVE damage boost. it "increases" your initial damage hit by 50% and "increases" your poison damage by 50% as well.
i put that in quotations because its actually a more multiplier, since shock "increases" your total damage done by 50%, which is the same as saying 50% more.

"

xMustard wrote:

also of course scourge will kill the guardians that can't be poisoned faster than dreamfeather version, its because dreamfeather scales flat chaos and poison. there is no physical scaling or elemental scaling. scourge has physical damage and scaling (with the claw nodes you took and melee phys support gem).

What? Can you explain this in more detail? Because if I slot in Dreamfeathers over The Scourge with IDENTICAL NODES that favor claws I gain about 160 on min dmg in DF's favor (!!) and lose about 200 on max dmg. Here are the total stats for each weapon set:

The Scourge

Weapon1: 476 - 1263 physical
Weapon2: 444 - 1258 physical
Chaos: 472 - 737 chaos

Total: 1254 per hit

Dreamfeather:

Weapon1: 638 - 1079
Weapon2: 601 - 1073
Chaos: 746 - 1165

Total: 1626 per hit

I'm using the same gems, same nodes, same jewels (some still have sword damage on them) and same auras (grace + blasphemy - which adds nothing to tooltip dps) on both setups. It's pretty clear that DF's increased attack damage derived from evasion affects it's physical component (which isn't insignificant). The only reason I took claw nodes for The Scourge is because they have leech (+ implicit on the weapons itself) on them so instead of going for the duelist leech nodes like you have to with dreamfeathers you grab the claw nodes and gain some attack speed and phys scaling in the process. Of course what isn't factored in here is the 70% minion damage if you've hit recently with the scourge. And because it's not explicitly stated what type of damage it is it double dips with attack damage and dot damage derived from it.

"

xMustard wrote:

i could very easily recolour and socket different things with my dreamfeather and probably kill those guardians faster than your dual scourge.

Please do, I'm legit interested. I'm planning to go back to dreamfeathers and spectral throw for more casual mapping while I work my way up to 10k tiers (and I'm just fucking sick of blade flurry) and this might give me some ideas. But I think you're severely underestimating the special property on Scourge. If you got time, make a vid, show the map mods (try to avoid +life or damage reductions), your evasion, etc.

as you just said, that doesn't include the scourge added dmg when you hit....so those numbers are completely null and void and not a legitimate comparison.

im not underestimating the properties of scourge, its pretty clear. you get 140% increased damage. that is ALL damage which is great and does double dip with poison but against things that can't be poisoned its 140%, wonderful.
vs things that can't be poisoned, well i already showed the type of setup i'll be shooting for. i'll also be using dual dreamfeather for that fight since breath of the council will do nothing, thus i'll be gaining 240+% increased attack damage.

My point was that phys part of the dmg on DF is scaled..quite significantly too.

"

Bawtzki wrote:

My point was that phys part of the dmg on DF is scaled..quite significantly too.

the phys part is scaled yes, but DF doesn't have significant physical damage. it is extremely useful to get flat physical rolls as well though with dreamfeather, especially if you have and can use sin's rebirth.


also im actually testing out dual scourge on my current setup with slightly different choices of flasks/auras etc and things are quite similar as a whole.
dual scourge would be a bit more DPS and i think more poison dmg too (just slightly) but would be better with a bone helmet for sure, but its less defensive because i drop jade flask and grace to get higher DPS.

essentially dual scourge has 140% double dip scaling. DF has about 130% to attack portion, and with BoTC stat stick and culling strike over melee phys support gem ends up with 106% scaling towards poison. so it is less, but DF also has higher attack speed.
the base poison would on average be higher with dual scourge however, because i also end up swapping jade flask for atziri so it scales off of hatred/physical that dual scourge can run.

the leech should be around the same but slightly favour dual scourge because of the added leech per second from the passives.

so yes dual scourge overall would play out better, i think. you just end up with less evasion which i honestly don't think would be a massive deal.
you do have quite a bit less accuracy with dual scourge, so it might be better to spec into the accuracy/attack speed by the middle frenzy charge. not sure what you'd give up to get that though.
but having the maximum number of wolves running around would definitely be helpful and worth it i think. i might end up running the dual scourge and just feeling how it is overall with the less evasion and such.

EDIT: oh one thing i forgot as well, with DF setup your poison lasts quite a bit longer. 40% longer actually, which is technically 40% more poison DPS on a fight that lasts long enough for the duration of your poison (basically only t16+ bosses)

and weapon MTX don't work on the scourge claws, which kinda sucks in my opinion

"

xMustard wrote:

"

Bawtzki wrote:

My point was that phys part of the dmg on DF is scaled..quite significantly too.

the phys part is scaled yes, but DF doesn't have significant physical damage. it is extremely useful to get flat physical rolls as well though with dreamfeather, especially if you have and can use sin's rebirth.

But that's what I wanted to show with those numbers, that DF does have quite a bit of psyh damage on its own with high eva. For a ~213 pdps weapon it scales pretty well. Not well enough to take strictly phys nodes over evasion or phys/chaos ones though, I suppose.[/quote]

"

xMustard wrote:

EDIT: oh one thing i forgot as well, with DF setup your poison lasts quite a bit longer. 40% longer actually, which is technically 40% more poison DPS on a fight that lasts long enough for the duration of your poison (basically only t16+ bosses)

Are you speccing your tree very differently with claws? I just kept the DoT pathing from Dreamfeather (which goes over Entropy node), but that's only 25%. I've had a bit too much to drink last night so I can't quite find the discrepancy at the moment, lol. In any case, once you get a good poison stack with the claws going the damage is monstrous...the problem is that boss phases are often so short that it's not really noticeable (compared to DF) unless you can really dig into your target.

In any case, I went back to using the swords since I switched to ST for a more fun mapping experience.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

happy new year dude.

ya i haven't really changed my tree yet. im out of regrets and shit. though what i did do first off was take out the increased evasion/resistance nodes by south frenzy and one more i got from lvl 92 and grabbed up the accuracy nodes by middle frenzy.

now i'll be looking to get the top portion of the claw wheel and Dervish. claw wheel will give me significant physical damage boost and some more leech, but i will most likely still keep the leech in the duelist area because the claw nodes are just physical damage where as duelist ones are attack damage.

i still don't do a very significant amount of physical damage, so for that to be my only source of leech i feel won't be satisfactory.

okay...so i'll maybe elaborate later but i will no longer be running with dual scourge, wow that shit sucks.

clear speed is lower, attack speed is lower. the single target could possibly be a little higher in DPS (i have a bone helmet but no glove enchant) but after trying chimera i could clearly see that no...it doesn't do more damage even though the tooltip is higher. not even close.

Can you post your tree and gear? For me it was the opposite lol, lower tooltip but higher overall dps.