@GGG - Could someone explain why Mjolner is having its cooldown increased? [new 2.6 changes :P]

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And Mjölnir isn't a fast weapon in general. What it lacks is impact. If it is a heavy sturdy hammer that requires ridicolous amounts of strength you shouldn't be able to swing it 10 times per second.

I've never seen someone who had anything close to 10aps on Mjolner. The fastest I've ever gotten was 8 and that was with an aurabot boosting me. But having a somewhat good APS on Mjolner increases the options for build diversity. Most Mjolner builds use either Kingsguard or leech, or both. Having a good APS give you a third option: life on hit. Not many people use LGOH, but it is viable if you build for it. If Mjolner had, say, only .8 APS, that'd be yet another thing that GGG would do to crush build diversity. I think that Mjolner should be 1.25 though, rather than 1.15, especially now that APS doesn't equal more dmg with mjolner as of patch 2.4.

The real issue with Mjolner is that, as I said, it's entire purpose is to vomit spells and now it sucks at doing that.

Well if you never had 10aps per second how does the CD even matter?

Of course it does in an AoE scenario (unless you are using cyclone of course, which would hit simultaniously).

The commonly used once were cyclone and Molten Strike. And both created many hits, but in a very small time frame. Molten Strike was the best skill to create delayed hits, otherwise the CD wouldn't matter, because you have to hit 10 times in a second to utilize that CD and that was only possible with Molten Strike and the delay between the projectiles and the attack (and even there it didn't really reach 100ms).

So Mjölnir never was able to work at maximum efficiency. Now of course you have to manipulate your build perfectly, easiest way could be just using 4 attacks per second because this is actually possible and will just result in 4 procs. You could aim for 8 attacks and dualwield Mjölnir with another weapon and use a skill that alternates weapons so only every other attack would proc mjölnir while the attack in between would create additional charges (funny enough you can just use Frenzy).

And honestly besides the skill being melee ranged Frenzy might actually be the best skill to proc Mjölnir now, AoE doesn't matter because it has an 100% proc chance anyway and it provides an additional charge. Of course for AOE Cyclone is still propably better, but Mjölnir lacks single target more anyway.

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Emphasy wrote:

That is not saying much. The underlying mechanic might ask the game for a refresh value at which time the effect can occur again and both mechanics are using the same variable, doing such things might be unnecessary in this specific case but in general having many mechanics calling the same variable is a good thing.

I will leave a question ? mark here as i dont now what you want me to tell. As both values (cast on hit and on crit) are seperate variables in programm code.

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Emphasy wrote:

The thing is Mjölnir hardly hits often enough per second on single enemies anyway that 250ms is an issue. That only applies to Molten Strike, which has other issues, a basic Cyclone Mjölnir wouldn't hit often enough unless you have many adds.

It comes to my mind that you dont have any experience with top end mjoler builds from previous patches. Reaching about 5 discharges and 5 casts of another spell was quite possible.

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Emphasy wrote:

You know that Mjölnir can never achieve that [...].

True with the 250 ms nerf its impossible now, i was refering to pathces previous to 2.5

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Emphasy wrote:

I'm also not on board with Discharge being the only option, 35% less damage was propably not enough, which brings us back to first issue cold spells are so much better than lightning spells, while also offering so much more safety. Vortex is uncomparable, while Frostbold and Freezing Pulse are two of the most damaging spells. Lightning Spells though all out suck, they are hardly used self cast and the same is true for triggers.

Again Cospris was solely made for discharge - check the meta in breach in around 3 weeks. For viable endgame mapping those spells like freeze pulse or frostbolt etc just dont cut it if you compare it to a discharge cospris.

Even if the two currently use the same variable, it would be very simple to create a new value and seperate the CDs of the two items.

Still no response yet, hopefully we'll get one! (Keep up the posting guys and we should eventually get a response). :D

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zSavage wrote:

Even if the two currently use the same variable, it would be very simple to create a new value and seperate the CDs of the two items.

Still no response yet, hopefully we'll get one! (Keep up the posting guys and we should eventually get a response). :D

I have been playing with this build as a crit-based Inquisitor and while it can do ok with trash, it still chugs on single target. Still tweaking it a little, but from what I have seen so far, the 250ms delay really didn't need to happen for Mjolner. It's already hard enough to build for and even the Kingsguard life variant that I am running is struggling to work well. Cospri's I could definitely understand the nerf there, but not for this unique. It's really a shame IMHO as it's gone from being one of the more fun, interesting uniques in the game to slowly overtime becoming less and less fun to play with while still having very steep requirements.

**NB** Thanks for breaking, quote function. NOT who I wanted to quote, or whom I had selected to quote in the first place. :\

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zSavage wrote:

Even if the two currently use the same variable, it would be very simple to create a new value and seperate the CDs of the two items.

Still no response yet, hopefully we'll get one! (Keep up the posting guys and we should eventually get a response). :D

Well I would agree from a balance standpoint, but from a technical point you don't want too many such things. In the ideal case all triggers would rest on the same CD, because that is easy to understand for the player and also easy to look them up for a dev. If all those skills work differently it might get messy because after a while you might forget why mechanic X got this number and the similar mechanic Y got another one.

Right now Cast when damage taken, surgeons, Mjölnir and Cospris all share the same CD, which would allow a general rule for triggers to have a 250ms CD. Unfortunatly, that is not all triggers. CoC has a 500ms CD and some skills have no CD (although adding it to Cast when stunned wouldn't really matter).

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It comes to my mind that you dont have any experience with top end mjoler builds from previous patches. Reaching about 5 discharges and 5 casts of another spell was quite possible.

I didn't really question that, but it was a hard push in single target situations. I never doubt it couldn't do it in AoE, but for single target it was a hard push, you had to use delayed skills like Molten Strike, Static Strike or Spectral Throw, because otherwise you would actually need 10 aps and even with those it was hardly possible to deal damage exactly after the CD was up so you wasted potential already.

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Again Cospris was solely made for discharge - check the meta in breach in around 3 weeks. For viable endgame mapping those spells like freeze pulse or frostbolt etc just dont cut it if you compare it to a discharge cospris.

Have you read the design post? It was made for cold spells, exspecially the ones creating chilled ground or areas. Of course it's used with Discharge, like any skill trigger. Because Discharge just destroys any other spell. It was the same with Mjölnir, when they showcased the item they used Arc and Ball Lightning and it is pretty clear that the fantasy of Mjölnir is creating lightning... not Discharge.


So to make those items usable, exspecially without owning items like Volls Devotion they would need to make them good for what they were originally designed for, without pumping more power into Discharge. Because just using Mjölnir without all those other items you need to just make it usable would be fun and the same is true for Cospris. And while Cospris Discharge likely still works the CD change propably killed builds not using Discharge and the reason again is discharge, not those other spells.

Mjolner and Cospri's need to be nerfed a little bit more , it will be good for the game .

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BestMageKR wrote:

Cospri's need to be nerfed a little bit more , it will be good for the game .

Fixed that for you.

Thanks for the bump though.

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Well if you never had 10aps per second how does the CD even matter?

Like the other guy said, I'm thinking you don't have much experience with Mjolner builds. You don't need 10 APS to saturate the 100ms, 5 procs per second casting on two, not just one, gems. In short, you don't need 10 APS to saturate 10 casts per second. You can do it easily with 6 APS with a 4link Molten Strike setup using GMP. I did that, but in a 5 link so I could use LGOH because I didn't have leech. And yes, that setup saturates 10 casts per second vs single target. Such a 4L setup + Blood Rage + 5 or so attack speed passives will give you 6 APS. It's the only way to properly use Mjolner if you want to saturate the casts at 100ms. Now, Mjolner having 250ms just breaks everything and it's useless, as per the reasoning I laid out on how Mjolner's dps comes entirely from spell vomiting.

GGG will never explain this because it makes no sense. It's a fundamentally irrational balance move.