@GGG - Could someone explain why Mjolner is having its cooldown increased? [new 2.6 changes :P]

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BestMageKR wrote:

Mjolner and Cospri's were in the same boat , nerfs had to be applied .

Can you get off your forum alt onto your main account, bro?

Joined Nov 27th, 2016. Profile set to private. This account is less than a week old.

You're clearly someone who is just using another name, because there is no way anyone who has been playing the game less than a week would have as much to say around the forums as you do.

As others have said, you must really not know what you're talking about if you think 2.4 Mjolner was even on the same level as Cospri's.

Bump for some or any explanation, still waiting.

(As for me, personally, I enjoy builds that use complicated interactions for a powerful effect. As Kripp said in the podcast, the meta usually aims for the simplest, most powerful build, which then gets nerfed. The Mjolner builds in 2.4 (and before) were very complicated mechanically, a challenge stat-wise, and not overwhelmingly powerful. While the build trivialized many easier fights, the build could also tackle the toughest endgame challenges with proper play, even in 2.4 after the first wave of nerfs. But again, as myself and many others have said in this thread, the changes in 2.5 to the cooldown of Mjolner are unwarranted and deserve an explanation if not a reversion to the 0.1s CD from 2.4)

I haven't tried my mjolner character since 2.4 because... there's no way it's any good. It was fairly shit with a 6l Kingsguard and 100% proc rate and volls and romiras in 2.4. Some of those aren't easy to get...!

That's a fair bit of shit to stack up just to, let's be honest, clear trials/uber lab. I'd never have played 2.4 version on maps for xp - not worth the time wasted.

It's now not worth any time. Make it a lightning phys weapon or something, just make it worth using. You nerfed the everliving fuck out of it. Make it chain 10x with lightning strike...

PS that'd still be shit since nothing that chains hurts vs single target - just like mjolner in 2.4!

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BestMageKR wrote:

Mjolner and Cospri's were in the same boat , nerfs had to be applied .

Damn stupid troll.

Mjölner builds were already nerfed during 2.4 and were running sub-par at best compared to several op meta builds out there, now it's totally useless.

what should be applied is a mute to your trolling copy/paste argumentless parrot attitude.

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zSavage wrote:

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BestMageKR wrote:

Mjolner and Cospri's were in the same boat , nerfs had to be applied .

Can you get off your forum alt onto your main account, bro?

Joined Nov 27th, 2016. Profile set to private. This account is less than a week old.

You're clearly someone who is just using another name, because there is no way anyone who has been playing the game less than a week would have as much to say around the forums as you do.

As others have said, you must really not know what you're talking about if you think 2.4 Mjolner was even on the same level as Cospri's.

Bump for some or any explanation, still waiting.

(As for me, personally, I enjoy builds that use complicated interactions for a powerful effect. As Kripp said in the podcast, the meta usually aims for the simplest, most powerful build, which then gets nerfed. The Mjolner builds in 2.4 (and before) were very complicated mechanically, a challenge stat-wise, and not overwhelmingly powerful. While the build trivialized many easier fights, the build could also tackle the toughest endgame challenges with proper play, even in 2.4 after the first wave of nerfs. But again, as myself and many others have said in this thread, the changes in 2.5 to the cooldown of Mjolner are unwarranted and deserve an explanation if not a reversion to the 0.1s CD from 2.4)

He probably thinks that players were paying 15 ex for a cospris just by the looks instead of buying a mjolner for 15c. Right?!

The kid has no idea about what he's talking abour, but hey! Let's reply anyway. :))

His old Acc actually got banned... well two of his Accs might have gotten banned :P


Like I said before, I assume Cospris and Mjölnir have the same base mechanic, that is why the CD applies to both of them and it made sense for cospris, not so much for Mjölnir, however I don't think the CD is actually the issue with Mjölnirs.

Instead of seperating the CDs and giving Mjölnir the old 100ms back I would look at the current item with the current CD and ask myself if the high stat requirements are necessary of if Mjölnir should get another nice benefit like +1 to Lightning Gems or a bit of Flat Lightning Damage. Because right now a Cold Gem in Cospris is better than a Lightning Gem in Mjölnirs. Another issue of course is that Lightning Gems in general are worse than Cold Gems. Vortex or Freezing Pulse are just so much better and Discharge is not that great and avaible to both items (and again deals more damage in Cospris due to the added cold damage).

The CD is propably fine, triggering a spell 4 times per second is still a lot. However overall Mjölnir is just not a good item.

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Jorune wrote:

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BestMageKR wrote:

Mjolner and Cospri's were in the same boat , nerfs had to be applied .

Damn stupid troll.

Mjölner builds were already nerfed during 2.4 and were running sub-par at best compared to several op meta builds out there, now it's totally useless.

what should be applied is a mute to your trolling copy/paste argumentless parrot attitude.

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Emphasy wrote:

His old Acc actually got banned... well two of his Accs might have gotten banned :P

Probably a salty botter that got caught and banned now tries to poison forum with his toxity.

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Emphasy wrote:

Like I said before, I assume Cospris and Mjölnir have the same base mechanic, that is why the CD applies to both of them and it made sense for cospris, not so much for Mjölnir, however I don't think the CD is actually the issue with Mjölnirs.

Instead of seperating the CDs and giving Mjölnir the old 100ms back I would look at the current item with the current CD and ask myself if the high stat requirements are necessary of if Mjölnir should get another nice benefit like +1 to Lightning Gems or a bit of Flat Lightning Damage. Because right now a Cold Gem in Cospris is better than a Lightning Gem in Mjölnirs. Another issue of course is that Lightning Gems in general are worse than Cold Gems. Vortex or Freezing Pulse are just so much better and Discharge is not that great and avaible to both items (and again deals more damage in Cospris due to the added cold damage).

The CD is propably fine, triggering a spell 4 times per second is still a lot. However overall Mjölnir is just not a good item.

To clarify a few things:

Cospris and mojo are not the same mechanics the one tirggers on CRIT (Cast on critical gem = Cospris) the other on hit (mjolner). They are totally seperate values like cast on crit used to have different values than mjolner before CoC got nerfed.

And yes the CD is acutally a big times issue for mjolner (not so much for cospris) as for cospris its easy to reach 6/7 charges (and now even frenzy charges too) before discharging while for mjolner it was not possible to reach a high enough attackspeed to stack that much charges before discharging. This simply means that both lost 60% damage but cospris still does a lot of damage and can be used for meta while mjolner is utter garbage.


Let me clarify some other distinct attributes what makes cospris 4 times better than mjolner:

+ Its a thrusting sword and has more range than all other onehand weapons
+ It have an easy elemental equilibrium enabler due to his cold damage mod = 50 % MORE dmg multiplier for discharge - whirlwind is used as a trigger which hits very often per second
+ Cospris is on a very fast base attack speed weapon on top of an attack speed mod for total of 1.82 APS to compare it. mjolner have 1.15 aps -> this means for cospris it is piss easy to reach 6/7 charges with whirlwind attacks before discharging and to reach 10 discharges/s whereas mjolner required a shit ton of attack speed and still didnt come close
+ Cospris got as a implicit 30% global crit multiplier mjolner got ~ increased stun duration
+ Cospris got 60% increased crit strike chance against chilled enemies mjolner got nothing
+ Cospris got laughable stat requirements as a "drawback" 257 int + 212 dex vs 412 str and 300 int on mjolner - who the fuck balanced this?
+ The evidence is clear that Cospris was solely made to be used for discharge and be around 4 times better than mjoler.


I think LostArc the guy who made Cospris should not be allowed to make an item like this ever again. Because it is also evident that the balance team do not check if an user made item is balanced or not before releasing it.

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Cospris and mojo are not the same mechanics the one tirggers on CRIT (Cast on critical gem = Cospris) the other on hit (mjolner). They are totally seperate values like cast on crit used to have different values than mjolner before CoC got nerfed.

That is not saying much. The underlying mechanic might ask the game for a refresh value at which time the effect can occur again and both mechanics are using the same variable, doing such things might be unnecessary in this specific case but in general having many mechanics calling the same variable is a good thing.

The thing is Mjölnir hardly hits often enough per second on single enemies anyway that 250ms is an issue. That only applies to Molten Strike, which has other issues, a basic Cyclone Mjölnir wouldn't hit often enough unless you have many adds.

Mjölnir is a slow weapon to begin with and considering the high requirements it should be impactful. However that is were it is lacking. If it would be just Cospris it fails to begin with.

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+ Cospris is on a very fast base attack speed weapon on top of an attack speed mod for total of 1.82 APS to compare it. mjolner have 1.15 aps -> this means for cospris it is piss easy to reach 6/7 charges with whirlwind attacks before discharging and to reach 10 discharges/s whereas mjolner required a shit ton of attack speed and still didnt come close

You know that Mjölnir can never achieve that, because it discharges every charge immidiatly. Mjölnir can at most do 2 Attacks within the time frame of 250ms and after that it discharges because Mjölnir has a 100% chance to trigger spells.

I'm also not on board with Discharge being the only option, 35% less damage was propably not enough, which brings us back to first issue cold spells are so much better than lightning spells, while also offering so much more safety. Vortex is uncomparable, while Frostbold and Freezing Pulse are two of the most damaging spells. Lightning Spells though all out suck, they are hardly used self cast and the same is true for triggers.

Bump!

Here's the problem that makes the Mjolner cooldown crippling while the same nerf to Malice can actually be described as a sensible thing in regards to balance.... Mjolner's DPS comes entirely from just vomiting spells. Malice's DPS comes from a number of built-in things that make the spells THEMSELVES more powerful. Malice is crit based, it's an easy EE enabler, etc. And Malice is faster than Mjolner, so it can actually keep up with the spell vomiting that Mjolner used to do. That's why the CD nerf to Malice makes sense. The CD nerf to Mjolner kills the ONE THING that makes it useful.

Adding +level to lighting gems on Mjolner won't make it viable again. It'll barely change a thing, considering Mjolner's attribute requirements leave little left to invest in making the spells themselves hit hard to begin with. +1, +2, even +3 levels on Mjolner wouldn't make it viable with this cooldown because the builds still wouldn't have the passives to scale the damage anyway.

So some people say that Mjolner's requirements should be reduced. No, no, guys, let's not do that. We're talking about MJOLNER for Christ's sake. It's supposed to be a god item that takes one hell of an investment just to use at all. Besides, as per the reasoning I've already laid out, reducing the requirements STILL wouldn't make it viable. Reallocating the passives/gear to use Mjolner into damage wouldn't be enough to make it viable. You would get WAY more dmg out of a traditional 5L caster build than you would out of a Mjolner with reduced attributes and spell passives. Reduced requirements AND +levels probably still wouldn't be enough. Mjolner isn't Malice. It doesn't have crit. It doesn't have EE. Like I said, its entire point is to vomit spells. So lets leave the attributes, I actually like them. Let's just make Mjolner not suck and be WORTH that investment.

So, what should GGG do to Mjolner? Simple. Put the 100ms timer back on, change the %ele dmg with weapons mod to a %dmg with spells linked in Mjolner mod (seriously, who uses mjolner for weapon ele dmg??), and increase the attack speed from 1.15 to 1.25. This, I believe, is a reasonable level for Mjolner to be on. It's still "meh" in terms of damage; you can take the investment you make into Mjolner and make a Tornado shot build that'll clear maps at least 5x faster than Mjolner. But at least this would be viable. Preferably, I'd like GGG to make these changes AND add a +levels.

And before somebody freaks out and says "Hold on, that'll bring back Mjolner discharge and that'll be OP", umm, no it won't. Discharge has already been nerfed into the ground, both directly and indirectly. If GGG did all the changes to Mjolner I just described, Discharge would STILL be "meh" compared to builds that cost the same to produce.

And in the event that the problem here is that GGG is just lazy with their coding and won't put the 100ms back on because "muh servers," then fine. Give Mjolner +5 levels and a % MORE spell dmg mod. Christ, even that wouldn't make it good at 250ms... You could still out DPS it with a lighting based elementalist. But +5 and %more would make it at least viable at 250ms.

The thing is... how should Mjölnir even achieve 10aps per second? For Discharge the CD only matters in heavy AoE situations, for single target not so much, because discharge itself doesn't give many charges (2 usually). The best situation for Mjölnir would be a way to selfhurt yourself as a Juggernaut to get Endurance Charges.

The only thing Mjölnir could really do is spam Molten Strike, but since it has a 100% proc chance now spamming many projectiles doesn't really matter anymore, because the first one procs it anyway. So all that matter is having an attack with high APS or delayed hits and as such there is essentially only Spectral Throw left.

And yeah Malice is now even better than Mjölnir because it can just use Bladeflurry to proc Malice itself and Cast while Channeling too.

And Mjölnir isn't a fast weapon in general. What it lacks is impact. If it is a heavy sturdy hammer that requires ridicolous amounts of strength you shouldn't be able to swing it 10 times per second.